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JOB. SO LITERALLY. GROVE CITY COUNCIL IS NOW IN SESSION. I HAVE THE CLERK CALL THE ROLL.
[Call to Order ]
MISS KELLY, MR. ROSS HERE. ANDERSON HERE. WILSON, HERE. HERE. HOLT, HERE. HERE. HERE.HERE. ALL RIGHT. WELCOME, EVERYONE. WE ARE IN A SPECIAL MEETING BEFORE OUR REGULAR MEETING. THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING TIME TO BE HERE EARLY THIS EVENING. WE ARE ON THE DROP
[Presentation of Charter Review Committee Report ]
DEAD DUE DATE THAT WE GAVE OURSELVES OF MARCH THE 3RD. SO WE'RE GETTING THIS ACCOMPLISHED BY OUR DEADLINE. AND I'D LIKE TO START OFF BY HAVING A REPORT TO COUNCIL FROM THE COMMITTEE CHAIR, MR. FREE TO GET US STARTED. AND THEN WE HAVE ABOUT AN HOUR. SO I HOPE THAT WE CAN ONCE WE HEAR THE OVERVIEW REPORT, OPEN THE FLOOR FOR QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL AND SOME DIALOG. IT'S GOOD TO SEE SO MANY MEMBERS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE IN THE ROOM, AND HOPEFULLY YOU WILL BE NOT SHY IN PARTICIPATING IN THIS DISCUSSION WITH COUNCIL. I THANK YOU ON THE FRONT END FOR YOUR COMMITMENT TO THIS PROJECT. AND I'M SURE YOU WILL HEAR MORE OF THAT FROM COUNCIL, BUT WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY. MR. FREE. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. I'M DAVID FREE.THAT'S THE POWER BUTTON THERE. OH, I SHOULD KNOW THAT. I'M DAVID FREE. I'M CHAIR OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHICH IS MET OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS. I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN BY JUST EXPRESSING MY HEARTFELT GRATITUDE TO THE MEMBERS OF THE GROVE CITY CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE. WE'VE ALL CHOSEN TO SIT IN THE BACK ROWS. THESE DEDICATED INDIVIDUALS. THEY SELFISHLY GAVE OF THEIR TIME AND EFFORT, MEETING NUMEROUS TIMES AND EVENINGS THROUGHOUT THE FALL TO DISCUSS AND DELIBERATE ON THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC. A SPECIAL THANKS GOES TO JUDITH SAMRA, OUR CO-CHAIR, FOR HER DEEP EXPERIENCE, HER EXPERTISE, HER WILLINGNESS TO BRAINSTORM, AND HER PATIENT GUIDANCE AND STEERING OUR DISCUSSIONS AND AS UNBIASED A MANNER AS WE COULD.
HER CONTRIBUTIONS WERE INVALUABLE. I ALSO WANT TO RECOGNIZE, IN ADDITION TO MISS CYNTHIA SAGALA AND KATHLEEN WELSH, WHO WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND IN DRAFTING, EDITING, REVIEWING, TYPE, SETTING, REDRAFTING THE FINAL COMMITTEE REPORT. THEIR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. OUR CITY COUNCIL DESERVES SPECIAL, SPECIAL THANKS AS WELL FOR CONVENING THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION, PARTICULARLY CHRISTINE HAWK AND TED BERRY.
THEY ATTENDED MOST OF THE MEETINGS SHARING THEIR LIVED EXPERIENCES AND INSIGHTS INTO THE EFFECTIVENESS AND CHALLENGES OF OUR CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT. WE'RE ALSO GRATEFUL TO CLERK KELLY, LAW, DIRECTOR SMITH, AND ADMIN CHUCK BOZO FOR THEIR PROFESSIONALISM AND ASSISTANCE THROUGHOUT. AND THANK YOU TO MAYOR STAGE FOR HIS ATTENDANCE AT NEARLY EVERY MEETING. HE CONSISTENTLY VOICED HIS OPINION THAT OUR CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NEED CHANGING. I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT THE MAYOR AND THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR WERE INDEED GIVEN AMPLE TIME AND TOOK AMPLE TIME TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE DISCUSSION. CONTRARY TO MARY MAYOR'S COMMENTS MADE AT OUR FINAL MEETING. AS YOU KNOW, CITY COUNCIL CHARGED THE CHARTER COMMITTEE WITH REVIEWING THE CHARTER PROVISIONS RELATED TO GROVE CITY'S FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ANY NECESSARY CHANGES. WE CONVENED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH AND HELD NUMEROUS MEETINGS, CONCLUDING OUR WORK ON JANUARY 25TH. OUR COMMITTEE STUDIED PUBLICATIONS. WE RECEIVED PRESENTATIONS ON THE CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT. WE GATHERED BETHE BEST PRACTICES FROM OTHER REGIONAL GOVERNMENT GOVERNMENTS, IN PARTICULAR THE CITY OF HILLIARD. FROM THESE EARLY MEETINGS, WE DEVELOPED A LIST OF ASPIRATIONAL GOALS. IF YOU'RE READING ALONG THERE AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE THREE, ASPIRATIONAL GOALS FOR THE CITY'S GOVERNING STRUCTURE, INCLUDING COLLABORATION, CONSENSUS BUILDING, PARTICIPATORY GOVERNANCE, RESPONSIVENESS, CLARITY, BALANCE, NONPOLITICAL STAFFING, AND STRENGTHENING CHECKS AND BALANCES. NEXT, WE IDENTIFIED THREE PREVAILING FORMS OF GOVERNMENT TO CONSIDER, STARTING ON PAGE EIGHT. OUR CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS KNOWN AS A
[00:05:09]
STRONG MAYOR CITY ADMINISTRATOR MODEL. THE MAYOR, ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE FOR A FOUR YEAR TERM, SERVES AS THE HEAD OF STATE AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE CITY. THE MAYOR HIRES THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR, APPOINTS ALL BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS WITHOUT COUNCIL CONFIRMATION, AND HIRES THE LAW DIRECTOR OR FIRM. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE CURRENT CITY ADMINISTRATOR SERVES WITHOUT A CONTINUING CONTRACT AND AT THE PLEASURE OF THE MAYOR, AND COULD THEREFORE THEORETICALLY BE DISMISSED AT ANY TIME. THIS WOULD LIKELY NOT BE THE CASE WITH ANY FUTURE ADMINISTRATOR OR MANAGER, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. ON PAGE SIX, WE LOOK AT THE COMMITTEE IDENTIFIED AN ALTERNATE FORM OF GOVERNMENT KNOWN AS THE CITY COUNCIL MANAGER MODEL. IN THIS MODEL, THE MAYOR WOULD BE ELECTED BY AND FROM WITHIN THE COUNCIL OR DIRECTLY BY THE CITIZENS, BUT SERVING ONLY AS A CEREMONIAL HEAD HEAD OF STATE, WITHOUT ANY EXECUTIVE DUTIES. APPOINTMENTS TO BOARDS, COMMISSIONS AND COMMITTEES WOULD BE MADE BY THE COUNCIL, WITH DEPARTMENT HEADS HIRED BY THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR AND THE LAW FIRM DIRECTOR OR FIRM CONFIRMED BY THE COUNCIL. WE ALSO CONSIDERED A MINOR VARIATION WHERE THE MAYOR IS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE FOR A FOUR YEAR TERM TO BE A CEREMONIAL HEAD OF STATE, ALSO WITHOUT APPOINTMENT OR EXECUTIVE DUTIES. AND FINALLY, WE CONSIDERED A VARIETY OF VARIOUS HYBRID FORMS, INCLUDING MAINTAINING THE STRONG MAYOR CITY ADMINISTRATOR MODEL, BUT ADDING COUNCIL CONFIRMATION FOR ALL APPOINTMENTS, INCLUDING THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR. THIS HYBRID MODEL ALLOWS THE COUNCIL TO WITHHOLD APPROVAL OF CERTAIN NOMINEES, BUT THE MAYOR RETAINS THE ABILITY TO INFLUENCE PARTICIPATION BY NOT BRINGING FORWARD CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT IN ALIGNMENT WITH HIS PARTICULAR AGENDA. SO MOVING ON TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH YOU'LL FIND ON PAGE TWO. IN THE END, THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS EXPRESSED THEIR PREFERENCES FOR ONE OF THESE THREE OPTIONS. FIVE OF THE NINE MEMBERS, MYSELF, KINTZ, PARKES, SAGALA, AND ZEMAMRA EXPRESSED A PREFERENCE FOR MOVING TO THE COUNCIL CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT, WITH THE MAYOR BEING ELECTED FROM AND WITHIN THE COUNCIL. THE SECONDARY OPTION OF AN ELECTED AND MAYOR ELECTED BY THE CITIZENS TO A CEREMONIAL ROLE WAS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANYONE.THREE MEMBERS, LINDA, RITCHIE AND ROACH, EXPRESSED A PREFERENCE FOR STAYING WITH THE CURRENT STRONG MAYOR, CITY ADMINISTRATOR FORM, AND ONE MEMBER, MISS WELSH, WAS IN FAVOR OF MOVING TO A HYBRID STRONG MANAGER, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT FORM. IN ADDITION. SO WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU ARE THE PREFERENCES OF ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE AS THEIR FIRST CHOICE. BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE WERE FOUR MEMBERS LINDA ROACH, SAGALA AND ZEMAMRA THAT INDICATED THAT IF THEIR PREFERRED FORM OF GOVERNMENT WAS NOT SEEN AS A VIABLE OPTION, EACH WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE HYBRID STRONG MAYOR COUNCIL ADMINISTRATOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THAT IS, A COUNCIL THAT CONFIRMS THE APPOINTMENTS OF THE MAYOR. SO IN THE END, ACCORDINGLY, IT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE 2024 CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE THAT THE GROVE CITY COUNCIL PURSUE CHARTER AMENDMENTS TO EFFECTUATE CHANGE WITH RESPECT TO GROVE CITY'S CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT. AND FURTHER, IF THE CHARTER IS TO BE AMENDED, IT'S RECOMMENDED THAT ANY TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS BE CORRECTED. PRONOUNS BE GENDERIZED, AND REFERENCES TO BOARD AND COMMISSION TERMS BE CORRECTED FROM SIX YEARS TO FOUR YEARS. THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I WILL OPEN THE FLOOR UP TO THE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL TO POSE ANY QUESTIONS. AND IF YOU'D LIKE TO RETURN TO YOUR SEAT, YOU CAN.
AND WE CAN DECIDE WHO AMONG YOU WOULD FEEL TO QUESTION. I'LL GO AHEAD. YES. OF COURSE. THANK YOU
[00:10:04]
AGAIN TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HOW MUCH EFFORT AND TIME THIS TOOK. AND I APPLAUD YOU FOR EVEN STEPPING UP AND BEING PART OF THIS COMMITTEE FIRST AND FOREMOST. IN YOUR OPENING STATEMENT, MR. FREE, YOU TALKED ABOUT STUDYING HILLIARD'S FORMER GOVERNMENT. I'D LIKE TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT. MAYBE SOME PROS AND CONS AND WHAT WAS MOST BENEFICIAL THAT YOU USE THAT AS A REFERENCE? CITY OF HILLIARD WAS A FAIRLY RECENT CASE STUDY OF A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION. THEIR MAYOR HAD REACHED THE END OF HIS TERM AND WAS NOT RUNNING AGAIN.AND THEY PUT BEFORE THE PEOPLE A PROPOSAL TO CHANGE TO A COUNCIL AND CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. IT WAS ADOPTED BY THE PEOPLE AND THEY'VE MADE THAT CHANGE. WE HAD A MEMBER FROM HILLIARD COUNCIL COME TO OUR COMMITTEE AND MAKE A PRESENTATION AND SPEAK TO US. A LOT OF THAT IS DETAILED IN THE MINUTES THAT YOU'VE ALSO RECEIVED. INTERESTINGLY, HILLIARD WENT THROUGH A REAL INFLECTION POINT IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT PROCESSES AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO A CHANGE IN THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THEY ALSO, FOR THE FIRST TIME HIRED A LEGITIMATE CITY MANAGER. NOW WE'VE HAD A CITY ADMINISTRATOR MANAGER FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS. WE'VE HAD THE BENEFIT OF PROFESSIONAL MANAGEMENT OF OUR CITY. HILLIARD WAS NOT IN THAT SAME SITUATION. SO A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE RATHER INTERESTING MOVEMENT THAT HILLIARD HAS MADE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WITH WITH NEW ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. DOES THAT HELP? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO? ANYTHING TO ADD BY ANY OTHER MEMBERS? I WOULD JUST SAY THAT AS IT RELATES TO ANY OF THESE SUBJECTS, THE PLEASE JUST APPROACH THE MICROPHONE, MOSTLY BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAPTURE THIS FOR EVERYBODY TO BE ABLE TO HEAR THE CONVERSATION. BUT WE'RE DEFINITELY OPENING THE QUESTION UP FOR ANY COMMITTEE MEMBER TO PARTICIPATE AND GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE ANSWER. WE DON'T ALL HEAR EVERYTHING THE SAME WAY. SO IT'S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO GET EVERYBODY'S TAKE ON IT. YES. GO AHEAD. THANK YOU. SO ANOTHER QUESTION. AND FIRST I ALSO JUST WANT TO REITERATE A HUGE THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THE TIME AND EFFORT THAT YOU HAVE SPENT ON THIS AND OUTSIDE OF THE MEETINGS, DRAFTING THIS AND CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE COUNCIL SLASH CITY MANAGER OPTION AND YOU LOOKED AT THE DIFFERENT A AND B, SO I'M SPEAKING TO A SPECIFICALLY WHERE THE MAYOR IS ELECTED BY AND FROM WITHIN COUNCIL TO SERVE. AND IT'S MORE OF A CEREMONIAL TYPE FORM. DID YOU LOOK AT OR WAS THERE ANY EVALUATION ALONG IN TERMS OF PRESIDENT OF COUNCIL RUNNING OR BEING IN A SPECIFIC ELECTED POSITION TO THAT? I RIGHT NOW PRESIDENT OF COUNCIL, IS VOTED IN AMONGST THE COUNCIL.
AND I HAVE SEEN IN IN OTHER FORMS OF GOVERNMENT WHERE SOMETIMES THOSE POSITIONS ARE ONES THAT ARE VOTED ON BY THE GREATER PUBLIC. CURIOUS, IF YOU LOOKED AT THAT AT ALL AS, AS ONE OF THE EXERCISES WITHIN THIS COUNCIL CITY MANAGER FORM? OKAY. THANKS, DAVID. YES WE DID. THAT WAS THE SECOND OPTION WITHIN THAT FIRST CITY MANAGER THING. OKAY. WHERE SOMEBODY INDEPENDENT OF COUNCIL WOULD RUN FOR MAYOR AS A CEREMONIAL HEAD OF STATE. MAYOR, GRAND OPENINGS REPRESENT THE CITY AT MEETINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT NOT HAVE EXECUTIVE POWERS, NOT HAVE APPOINTMENT POWERS. AND THERE WAS A GOOD DEAL OF DISCUSSION. BUT IN THE END, NONE OF US SUPPORTED THAT APPROACH TO IT. THE IDEA OF A COUNCIL WHICH ELECTS THE MAYOR IS ALMOST EXACTLY THE WAY YOU'RE CURRENTLY ELECTING THE PRESIDENT. WHEN YOU REORGANIZE EVERY OTHER YEAR AFTER THE ELECTION CYCLE, YOU WOULD ELECT FROM WITHIN THE SEVEN WHO WOULD BE MAYOR IF THAT TERM WAS USED. IT COULD ALSO REMAIN WITH COUNCIL PRESIDENT AS THE TERM. THE TERM IS NOT IMPORTANT, BUT THAT PERSON THEN WOULD HAVE THE ADDITIONAL DUTIES OF THE CEREMONIAL REPRESENTING THE CITY AT AT AT CONFERENCES OR MEETINGS, GOING TO GRAND OPENINGS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF, AND WOULD ALSO BE THE EXECUTIVE OF THE COUNCIL. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CLARIFYING THAT WITH ME FOR SURE. THANK YOU FOR NOW, MADAM CHAIR. YES, MA'AM. I WOULD LIKE
[00:15:06]
TO ADDRESS COUNCIL, IF I COULD. YES. OR FLIGHT AFTER COMMITTING YEOMAN'S JOB. I MEAN, THAT IS NOT EASY. AND THEN THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MAYOR. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE EXACT WORDS. NOT BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IS NOT EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS. WHAT WHAT HAPPENED FROM MY STANDPOINT WAS THIS. AND I THINK, MR. BOWSER, NOT TO SPEAK FOR HIM. WE INVITED SOMEBODY FROM HAYWARD TO COME TO CITY COUNCIL TO COME TO THIS COMMITTEE AND DISCUSS THEIR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THE MAYOR AND THE ADMINISTRATOR WERE NOT PUT IN THAT SAME FRAMEWORK. GRANTED, YOU COULD PARTICIPATE. I COULD PARTICIPATE IN THE DISCUSSION, BUT IT WAS NEVER MAYOR. CITY ADMINISTRATOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT? AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENTIAL THAT I WANT TO MAKE. THE PART THAT IF YOU WANT TO PICK THAT, PUT THAT UP THERE. TAMMY. THIS THIS IS NOT A NEW SUBJECT ABOUT CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I FOUND AN ARTICLE BACK OF ALL TIMES OF FEBRUARY 1994 WHERE MR. BOZO RESPONDED TO A LETTER TO THE EDITOR. MATTER OF FACT, IT WAS FROM THE EDITOR OF THE NEWSPAPER WHO SAID CITY OF GROVE CITY OUGHT TO GO TO A CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THE PIECE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, WHAT I, WHAT I CONSIDER VERY MINUSCULE IN THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ABOUT CITY MANAGER VERSUS MAYOR, WAS CHECKS AND BALANCES OF THE GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE, AS THIS ARTICLE POINTS OUT, AND I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT WHAT IS HIGHLIGHTED AND READ THAT BRIEF COMMENT. AS MR. MCDONALD DESCRIBED MANY COMMUNITIES OF COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT HAVE THE MAYORS CHOSEN BY AND AMONG THE ELECTED COUNCIL MEMBERS. THE ADMINISTRATOR MANAGERS IN THESE CITIES THEN WORK DIRECTLY FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS. NOT ONLY DO THESE COUNCILS ACT AS A LEGISLATIVE BODY, BUT THEY ALSO DIRECTLY ORCHESTRATE THE CITY'S ADMINISTRATIVE OR EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONS THROUGH THE MANAGER. CLEARLY, THIS IS A STARK CONTRAST TO THE USE OF CHECKS AND BALANCES OF SEPARATION OF POWERS IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS. SO THIS IS NOT A NEW SUBJECT. AND HAD WE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE THAT SUBJECT MATTER AS A STAND ALONE IN THE DISCUSSIONS, I THINK WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL. AND THAT'S THE REASON I MADE THE COMMENT EARLIER. THE OTHER PART ABOUT IT IN THE DISCUSSION, A LOT OF IT CENTERED ON WHO APPOINTS COMMISSIONS, BOARDS AND THE CABINET OF THE OF THE MAYOR THAT ALSO HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED IN OTHER FORMS OF THIS OF THE CHARTER REVIEW PROCESS. MATTER OF FACT, AT THE LAST CHARTER REVIEW GROUP, IT WAS A PART OF THAT WHOLE DISCUSSION. THE ANSWER WAS NO. THAT, NUMBER ONE, THE CURRENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS ADEQUATE AND DOES ALL THE THINGS. NUMBER TWO, THAT THE SELECTION AND THE PROCESS OF PUTTING BOARD MEMBERS AND EMPLOYEES THROUGH A COUNCIL MANAGER APPOINTMENT OR RATIFICATION IS SOMETHING THAT THAT PARTICULAR GROUP SAID NO.SO I JUST WANT TO BRING THOSE TWO POINTS UP. CHECKS AND BALANCES. IT'S NOT A NEW SUBJECT. AND IT WAS, BUT IT WAS NOT DISCUSSED. I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING A PARTICULAR NIGHT IN WHICH WE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH ANYTHING ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES. IT WAS DISCUSSED, BUT VERY MINUSCULE. THE OTHER PIECE THAT I'VE INCLUDED AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE PART OF OUR PACKAGE, IS THE TESTIMONY THAT I GAVE TO COUNCIL WHEN THIS RESOLUTION WAS ADOPTED, WHICH SAYS SPECIFICALLY A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF REVIEWING THE CITY'S JOINT FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND TO BEGIN THE TRANSITION TO THE COUNCIL MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. I MEAN, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CHARGE THAT WAS IN THIS RESOLUTION, AND NOT TO TOTALLY REITERATE IT, BUT I WAS NOT GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ THESE PARTICULAR POINTS TO THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE, BUT IT MADE A DIFFERENCE, I DON'T KNOW, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY COME OVER FROM HAGGARD, WHO'S BEEN GIVEN A LIST OF QUESTIONS AND THEY WERE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS IT AS A GROUP AS A WHOLE, TO ME WAS NOT QUITE AS CITED AS OR AS MORE CITED THAN ALSO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO. THE MAYOR AND THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR ALSO DISCUSS THOSE PARTICULAR POINTS IN THAT IN THAT FORM. BUT I, I LIKE TO HAVE
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THESE COMMENTS AGAIN PUT INTO THE MINUTES OF THIS PARTICULAR MEETING, BECAUSE IF THIS DOES MOVE FORWARD, IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US TO UNDERSTAND. SO THE TOTAL BACKDROP, WHICH I KNOW YOU DO, OF WHAT GOES ON IN A CHANGE OF A CHARTER, BUT THIS IS OUR CONSTITUTION. IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN NOVEMBER OF 1958. IT'S HAD ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR REVISIONS SINCE THAT TIME. AND SO THIS I HATE TO USE THE WORD SACRED. I'M GOING TO USE IT WITH A SMALL S.IT IS A SACRED DOCUMENT. AND CHANGING IT IS AN EXTREMELY. IMPORTANT POSITION FOR THE CITY TO TAKE. BUT THE CONFUSION OF WHAT YOU'RE CHANGING BECOMES PROBABLY MUCH OF THE SUBJECT IS ANYTHING ELSE. SO THAT IS MY POINT THAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. COUNSEL PUBLIC, WHOEVER. BUT THAT WAS MY QUESTION. BACK TO THE COMMITTEE.
MAYOR, I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING YOUR ADDITIONAL COMMENTS THIS EVENING. I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT YOU WERE NOT PRESENT DURING THE FIRST TWO, I BELIEVE, MEETINGS, AND MISTER BOZO WAS THERE IN YOUR PLACE, AND THEN YOU DID BOTH COME TOGETHER AFTER THAT TIME, AND I THINK YOU MISSED SOME OF THAT SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION RELATED TO ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR PERSPECTIVE. AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT WERE AVAILABLE. MISTER BERRY, MISTER HOLT WAS THERE THE FIRST MEETING MYSELF. SO I, I, I DO THINK WE DID COVER SOME OF THAT, ALTHOUGH YOU WEREN'T PART OF THAT CONVERSATION. SO I APPRECIATE YOUR CALLING OUT THE INDIVIDUAL ITEMS THAT YOU FELT NEEDED TO BE ON THE RECORD. YEAH, AND A DIFFERENCE TO SOME DEGREE IS.
BEING THE BEING A. EX-OFFICIO MEMBER IS PRETTY DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BE IN. AND I APPRECIATE BECAUSE I'VE READ ALL THE MINUTES, THE CHECKS AND BALANCES DID NOT HAVE MUCH OF A DISCUSSION, NO MATTER WHAT OTHER MEANS THEY WERE. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A RIFT RIGHT NOW WITH JACKSON TOWNSHIP AS TO WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE FIRE MARSHAL NEVER WAS DISCUSSED. AND TO ME, THAT'S IN THE CHARTER. IF WE'RE GOING TO FIX THAT, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THE DISCUSSION. SO MY POINT WAS WHEN WE GAVE THE PERSON FROM HERE TO LIST THE QUESTIONS, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO HAVE THOSE SAME QUESTIONS GIVEN TO ME AND CHUCK, AND SO THAT WE COULD GIVE TESTIMONY IN A WAY OF A DISCIPLINED QUESTION AND ANSWER TYPE SITUATION, JUST KEEPING IN MIND THAT HIS QUESTIONS WERE VERY SPECIFIC TO THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TRANSITIONED FROM ONE FORM OF GOVERNMENT TO THE OTHER. THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON, I THINK, THAT THEY WERE INVITED.
UNDERSTAND THAT? YEAH. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE MAYOR? THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
MAYOR. I MIGHT, SINCE I WAS PRESENT FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES. I'LL TRY TO CHARACTERIZE THE BEST I CAN. MY RECOLLECTION OF IT. WE TALKED ABOUT TWO IMPORTANT ASPECTS. ONE WAS TERM LIMITS. AS SOMEBODY THAT'S BEEN IN OFFICE FOR MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS CAN DO THINGS THE WAY THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN DONE. THE SECOND WAS THE POWER OF VETO, WHICH INTERESTINGLY, UNTIL THIS PAST MONTH OR SO, HAD BEEN USED ONCE IN THE LONG MEMORY OF OUR COUNCIL AND OF OUR PRESIDENT, OUR MAYOR. SO THE LIKELIHOOD OF A VETO COMING UP HADN'T PLAYED OUT IN MANY, MANY YEARS. SO WE DID DISCUSS AND CONSIDER IT, BUT IT NEVER RAISED TO THE LEVEL WHERE WE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED MAKING A CHANGE TO THE CHARTER IN EITHER OF THOSE ASPECTS. I WOULD ALSO MAKE ONE POINT ABOUT THE WHOLE APPOINTMENT PROCESS, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE SPENT MOST OF OUR TIME ON, IS WHO APPOINTS THE COUNCIL OR THE CITY MANAGER, AND WHO APPOINTS THE OTHER POSITIONS. AND I WOULD RECKON WHAT OUR PROCESS FOR CHOOSING OUR NEW COUNCIL PERSON MEMBER WOULD HAVE BEEN IF OUR MAYOR HAD BEEN IN A POSITION TO APPOINT THE REPLACEMENT FOR OUR EMPTY SEAT. IF IT HAD NOT BEEN THE SEVEN OF YOU COMING TOGETHER IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY TO CHOOSE THE BEST CANDIDATE. IF YOU WERE ONLY ASKED TO CONFIRM A CANDIDATE BROUGHT FORWARD BY A SINGLE ELECTED OFFICIAL. SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT OR LOOK AT BALANCE OF POWER, FOR ME IT RESTS IN THE FACT THAT I HAVE SEVEN COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO NEED TO COLLABORATE AND COME TOGETHER TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION FOR THE CITY, AS OPPOSED TO ONE ELECTED OFFICIAL WHO CAN BLOCK ALL SORTS OF GOOD
[00:25:03]
INITIATIVES AND GOOD CANDIDATES AND GOOD VOLUNTEERS AND GOOD STEWARDS OF OUR CITY. BY NOT BRINGING THEM FORWARD FOR A POSITION. SO BALANCE OF POWER SEEMS TO ME TO WORK BETTER. WHEN YOU HAVE SEVEN COUNCIL MEMBERS FORCED TO COLLABORATE. DOES ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS? OH. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING ADDITIONAL? OKAY. GO AHEAD. SO I'M GOING BACK TO PAGE FOUR HERE. SO I'M LOOKING AT KIND OF WHERE EVERYBODY FELL HERE. AND IT SAYS ADDITIONAL MEMBERS LINDA ROACH SAGALA ZAMORA INDICATED THAT IF THERE THAT THEY THAT THEY OF COURSE THEY HAD THEIR FIRST PREFERENCE, BUT THEY WERE OPEN TO A HYBRID FORM IS I'M ASSUMING YOU DIDN'T PUT WELCH IN THERE BECAUSE SHE, SHE ALREADY AGREED TO. CORRECT. SO, SO THERE'S BASICALLY ONE, 23123. SO THERE'S FIVE THERE. RIGHT. I BELIEVE MR. RICHIE IS ALSO AMICABLE TO THAT. THAT WOULD BE SIX OF THE NINE WOULD BE AMICABLE TO THE HYBRID. OKAY. SO SIX OF THE NINE ARE. OKAY. NOW LET'S GO BACK TO THE JUST JUST FOR A MINUTE HERE, MADAM CHAIR, IF I COULD. SO LET WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE HYBRID FORM OF GOVERNMENT. AND AGAIN, HYBRID BASICALLY MEANS THAT WE'D STILL BE MAKING CHANGES. WE JUST WOULDN'T BE MAKING HOLISTIC CHANGES. WHAT WAS THE ATTRACTIVE PART OF THAT TO THOSE FIVE PEOPLE? I MEAN, WHAT DID THEY PREFER TO THAT AS OPPOSED TO THE COUNCIL MANAGER? SO I GUESS THIS THIS IS DIRECTED TOWARDS ROACH. RICHIE. THAT WAS THE I WAS THE ONE HOLDOUT THAT DIDN'T SUPPORT THAT HYBRID MODEL. SO I WILL SIT AND YIELD TO THOSE WHO DID.YEAH. I MEAN, I'M JUST CURIOUS, CHRIS, IF YOU COULD GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS TO SINCE YOU'RE UP THERE, MISS ROACH, 2300 HOLTON ROAD. I THINK THAT THE 5 OR 6 OF US, 3 OR 4 OF US WOULD PREFER THE HYBRID. A COUPLE WOULD BE OKAY WITH IT. STILL PREFER DRAWING COUNCIL, BUT THE REASON WE PREFERRED A HYBRID OVER STRONG COUNCIL CITY MANAGER IS WE LIKE THE TRADITION OF THE MAYOR ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE, BUT GIVE SOME MORE POWER TO THE COUNCIL TO MAKE SOME SOME APPROPRIATIONS OR SOME, YOU KNOW, TO NAME SOME OF THE COMMITTEES OR BUT WE STILL FEEL THE MAYOR SHOULD HIRE HIS CABINET, THAT TYPE OF THING. BUT MAYBE WITH A CONFIRMATION OF COUNCIL THAT NEVER GOT REALLY, YOU KNOW, WORKED OUT. BUT WE JUST FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE HAPPY WITH HOW THE CITY HAS BEEN RUN FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS, 60 YEARS, WHATEVER SINCE THE CHARTER. AND THAT THERE'S NO NEED FOR THIS DRASTIC CHANGE. OKAY. SO IN SUMMARY, THE THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE THE TRADITION OF THE MAYOR BEING ELECTED. YES. SO, OKAY. AND THE CHECKS AND BALANCES FIGURES INTO THAT PRETTY STRONGLY TOO, THAT THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT HAS SOME POWER TO CHECK COUNCIL AS WELL AS COUNCIL CAN CHECK THE, YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. OKAY. I'M JUST TAKING NOTES HERE ON THE CORNER. THERE WAS YOU KNOW, THERE WAS LIKE I SAID, THERE WAS THREE OF US THAT REALLY PREFERRED STRONG MAYOR, THREE OF US THAT REALLY PREFERRED STRONG COUNCIL. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THREE IN BETWEEN. OKAY.
THAT'S THAT WAS 5 TO 4 STRONG COUNCIL YOU KNOW TO BE TO BE FAIR AS THE FIRST CHOICE. DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING. YOU WERE OH THAT'S PLEASE COME ON UP. THAT'S LIKE TO HEAR FROM EVERYBODY HERE. CINDY 2431 MILLIGAN GROVE. AND I WAS GOING TO JUST REITERATE THE COUPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE. I KNOW JUDITH SAMAMA AS WELL. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK, YOU CAN. BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR VIEW WAS SORT OF WE WANT TO SEE CHANGE AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, IN CHANGING THE CHARTER, GOING, YOU KNOW, OVERHAULING THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS IT'S A PRETTY BIG TASK. AND THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS AND, YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZING HOW ALL ENCOMPASSING THAT WAS. BUT WE SO, YOU KNOW, IF NOTHING ELSE, WE WOULD AT LEAST LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THE THINGS BALANCED OUT A LITTLE MORE THAT WE CAN HAVE CONFIRMATION OF APPOINTMENTS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO JUST PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE FROM WHERE THEY WERE. SO WE
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BASICALLY. AM I CORRECT THAT WE HAVE. WELL, BASICALLY WE'VE GOT IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY IN SOME SPECTRUM WANTS SOME CHANGE, BUT THERE'S SIX PEOPLE THAT WOULD GO WITH THE HYBRID. IS THAT BELIEVE THAT'S THE CORRECT COUNT? I'D HAVE TO GO SEE THAT PAGE AGAIN. BUT SO IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY IN A SENSE WANTED SOME TYPE OF CHANGE. YES. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S CORRECT. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IF YOU WOULD CHARACTERIZE. THAT'S JUST THE RANGE OF CHANGE. YES. JUST THE RANGE OF IT. YES.MR. HOLT, DAVID. SO I'M USED TO. LET'S SEE. WHAT I WAS EXPECTING WAS MORE LIKE A SINGULAR RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COUNT, FROM THE COMMITTEE, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT HAS TO PROCEED BASED ON THIS RECOMMENDATION. AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FOR.
WE HAVE A SLICE OF THE COMMUNITY HERE WITH EVERYBODY NOMINATING DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND TRYING TO SEE IF WE CAN FIND A DESIRED DIRECTION, BECAUSE THAT HAS TO BE THEN VOTED ON BY THE PEOPLE.
SO IN SOME SENSE, YOU REPRESENT A SMALL SLICE OF THE PEOPLE. ONCE AGAIN, I WOULD THANK YOU GUYS FOR THIS. I KNOW IT WAS HARD. I HAD AT LEAST ONE PERSON QUIT AND I HAD TO NOMINATE SOMEBODY NEW. SO I KNOW IT WAS TOUGH. BUT JUST TO MAKE THIS SIMPLE OPTION ONE TWO, THREE, JUST LIKE THERE ON PAGE TWO, NOW YOU LIST THEM AS PREFERENCES FOR PEOPLE. BUT WOULD THAT NOT HAVE BEEN THE SAME AS IF YOU WERE VOTING IN THAT SITUATION? AND I NOT A FAN OF NEGOTIATING THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COMMITTEE HERE BY I MIGHT VOTE FOR THIS OR I MIGHT YOU KNOW, YOU BASICALLY SHOULD HAVE HAD ONE VOTE. THIS IS WHAT I SUPPORT AND HAD A CLEAR RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMITTEE. SO AM I TO TAKE PREFERENCES EQUALS A VOTE FROM YOUR COMMITTEE. WELL, I'M SORRY THAT WE DID IN A WAY PUNT SOME OF THIS BACK TO YOU ALL. BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE MANY, MANY MEETINGS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROCEED. IF THIS IS TO GO BEFORE THE VOTERS, PLEASE NOTICE THE ACTUAL RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE REVIEW COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS THAT THE THAT WE PURSUE SOME FORM OF CHANGE. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, EIGHT OF THE NINE MEMBERS SAID CHANGE. THEY WERE LESS CLEAR ON CHANGE TO WHAT? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCE ON IT. ONLY ONE MEMBER SAID CHANGE TO THE HYBRID FIVE MEMBERS. A MAJORITY SAID CHANGE TO STRONG COUNCIL, CITY MANAGER AND 2 OR 3 SAID STAY WHERE YOU ARE. SO YEAH, IT WASN'T A STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN. I DON'T THINK THE ELECTORATE IS GOING TO BE A STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN VOTE EITHER. THERE'S A LOT OF HARD WORK AHEAD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO, BUT WHAT YOU CAN COUNT ON IS EIGHT OF OR GET THIS RIGHT, SIX OF NINE, A MAJORITY, A SUPERMAJORITY SAID WE NEED A CHANGE IN THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I, I, I KNOW I ARTICULATED I'M GOING TO GET TO YOU, MR. KINS, BUT I, I KNOW I ARTICULATE THIS YOU ARE THE COMMITTEE CAN SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT I WAS ALSO UNCOMFORTABLE IN THE WORLD OF, I GUESS MY BRAIN IS A YOU PUT IN ALL THIS DATA AND OUT COMES THE ANSWER. SO WHAT'S YOUR ANSWER? AND YOU WERE NAVIGATING THIS DISCUSSION AND I STARTED TO REALLY APPRECIATE THE, THE CHALLENGE OF SITTING IN A ROOM. AND YOUR EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS WERE THERE OBVIOUSLY, TO REPRESENT AN OPINION ABOUT WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE FROM EITHER EITHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION. AND I HONESTLY FEEL LIKE YOU GOT TO A GOOD SPOT IN TRYING TO CONVEY EACH PERSON'S PREFERENCE, MEANING THEIR NUMBER ONE CHOICE OR THEIR VOTE AS IT DEPENDING ON HOW YOU LABEL IT. AND THEN THAT SORT OF. BUT I YOU KNOW, I FEEL THAT THIS NEED FOR CHANGE IS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION. SO I'VE RECOGNIZED THAT EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THIS POSITION THAT I'M HOLDING MYSELF, I RECOGNIZE THERE IS NEED FOR CHANGE. AND THAT LIKELY EVOLVED FROM AS A BYPRODUCT OF THE DISCUSSION. AND QUITE HONESTLY, IF THERE IS ONE THING I HAVE LEARNED IN DOING THIS WORK IS THAT THERE IS THE BLACK ANSWER, THE WHITE ANSWER, AND THEN THERE ARE ALL THE
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SHADES OF GRAY THAT OCCUR IN THE MIDDLE, AND IT'S THOSE SHADES OF GRAY WHERE THE MAGIC HAPPENS.AND THAT'S WHY WE ASKED YOU, A GROUP OF CITIZENS, TO COME FORTH WITH, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE GROVE CITY ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION? I HOPE YOU LEARNED A TON ABOUT HOW OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS AND WHAT IS IN OUR CHARTER. AND QUITE HONESTLY, YOU'RE PUNTING IT BACK TO COUNCIL IS WHERE IT SHOULD BE, BECAUSE WE ARE THE FIRST PERSON FRONT ROW SEAT TO THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN ACTION. AND IT WOULD BE INCUMBENT UPON US TO TELL THE STORY OF THAT TO OUR VOTERS IF WE WERE TO TAKE A CHANGE TO THEM. AND AS THE MAYOR SAID, ANY CHANGE TO OUR CHARTER IS NOT SOMETHING THAT ANY OF US TAKE LIGHTLY. SO I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK AND JUST WANTED TO CHIME IN AS FAR AS THAT. MR. KINTZ, CAN YOU COME UP AND SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS? THANK YOU. 5861 QUAIL RUN DRIVE. WHEN I THINK ABOUT MY TIME IN THE COMMITTEE AND THE DECISION I MADE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH LOOKING AT THE COUNCIL AND CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE DISCUSSIONS WE HAD WHEN WE HAD THESE MEETINGS WAS ABOUT THE FACT THAT MAYOR STAGE AND CHUCK BOZO HAVE BEEN AMAZING STEWARDS IN THEIR ROLES OVER THIS TIME PERIOD. AND A LOT OF MY FOCUS WAS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THERE FOREVER. AND WHEN, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAYOR SATAN SAID A MINUTE A COUPLE MINUTES AGO WHEN HE WAS HERE AND WE TALKED ABOUT ADEQUATE, WE NEED SOMETHING BETTER THAN ADEQUATE WITH THEIR ALL THE OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND US SEEM TO BE THRIVING IN WAYS. AND SOME OF THOSE WAYS ARE, I THINK, TIED TO HOW THEIR FORM OF GOVERNMENT WORKS. SO WHEN I LOOK AT THE DECISION POINTS I MADE, THAT WAS PART OF IT. AND ALSO WHEN YOU LOOK AT APPOINTEES AND COMMISSIONS, I MEAN, I WAS I WAS BLESSED TO BE ASKED TO SERVE ON A BOARD YEARS AGO. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AS I WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY THERE WERE TIMES I WAS REMINDED HOW I GOT THAT ROLE. SO TO HAVE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL PROVIDE THAT INPUT TO ANYBODY THAT'S IN A IN A VOLUNTEER ROLE LEADS ME TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO REALLY CHANGE AND LOOK AT HOW THIS IS, THIS MOVES GOING FORWARD. SO THANK YOU. OTHER ITEMS COUNCIL I HAVE SOMETHING ELSE. BUT IF YOU WANTED TO I JUST HAVE MR. WILSON. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. JUST A REAL QUICK QUESTION FOR THE COMMITTEE. I KNOW THE MAYOR PRESENTED AN ARTICLE JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, BUT MY QUESTION WAS, OR IS, WAS THERE ANY RESEARCH OF PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES CONDUCTED BY THE COMMITTEE ON THESE FORMS OF GOVERNMENT, AND IF SO, WAS THERE ANY ONE THAT SORT OF BUBBLED UP AS AS THEMATIC IN THAT RESEARCH? BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE ARTICLES FROM THE INTERNATIONAL CITY MANAGERS ASSOCIATION AND ANOTHER ARTICLE, BUT I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT OR MORE INTERESTED IN PEER REVIEW. YEAH, THAT'S THE CRUX OF THE RESEARCH WE DID WERE THOSE TWO ARTICLES. THEY WERE VERY DETAILED. THEY I THOUGHT THEY DID A GREAT JOB TALKING ABOUT IT. I HAVE TO SAY THIS WAS QUITE A LEARNING JOURNEY FOR MYSELF. I SUSPECT FOR MOST OF OUR MEMBERS, IT WAS AN IMMENSE LEARNING PROJECT TO UNDERSTAND THESE DIFFERENT FORMS AND THEN TO DISCERN WHAT THE INFLUENCES ARE BEHIND THE SCENE OF THIS VERSION VERSUS THAT VERSION. BUT YES, WE DID REVIEW THOSE ARTICLES. WE WERE ALSO GIVEN A WONDERFUL SPREADSHEET ON ALL THE DIFFERENT FORMS OF GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL COMMITTEES. IT'S ALL PART OF THE MATERIALS OF THIS PROJECT. SO IF YOU REALLY WANT TO EYEBALL TWISTER, GO READ THAT ONE. BUT IT DOES SHOW. OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW DECADES, A NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES HAVE MOVED TO THIS THIS FORM. AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY TO THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK THAT YOU ALL PUT INTO THIS TO. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. MR. LINDER. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS MIKE LINDER, 5300 MEADOW GROVE DRIVE. SO THIS IS MY SECOND TIME AROUND DOING THIS CHARTER COMMITTEE WITH MR. KECK WAS WITH US THE FIRST TIME AND MISS HAWK AS WELL. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT OPPORTUNITY. IT'S MY WAY OF GIVING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY. I DID SERVE 15 YEARS, I THINK, ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO I UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT IN MY 15 YEARS WHEN I WAS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION, NOT ONE TIME DID I GET INFLUENCED BY ANY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. CHUCK, MAYOR, NOBODY. AND THERE'S BEEN PLENTY OF TIMES I DIDN'T AGREE WITH WHAT THE CITY RECOMMENDED. AND SO THERE WAS THIS INFORMATION THAT MAY SAY PEOPLE ARE LEANING ON PEOPLE TO INFLUENCE THEM. I REALIZE THAT CAN HAPPEN, BUT IN MY TIME SERVING, THAT NEVER HAPPENED. I SERVED WITH YOUR DAD. IT WAS QUITE THE HONOR, FOR SURE. AND SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT. SECONDLY, MY BIGGEST FEAR WITH THIS IS THE PEOPLE THAT
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THAT WE THAT YOU SERVE. I'VE BEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR 52 YEARS, SO I KNOW A FEW PEOPLE. I GRADUATED FROM GROVE CITY HIGH SCHOOL AND I TALKED TO THEM. AND MAYBE IT'S THE CIRCLE THAT I RUN WITH. AND I ASKED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, DO YOU KNOW WHAT A STRONG MAYOR IS OR A STRONG COUNCIL? NOT ONE OF THEM KNEW WHAT THAT WAS. AND SO WHATEVER YOU DO, I REALIZE THERE'S AN EDUCATION PROCESS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID THE LAST TIME. PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND. AND SO WHATEVER HAS TO HAPPEN, IF ANYTHING DOES HAPPEN, I HOPE IT'S DETAILED AND PEOPLE JUST AREN'T PULLING A LEVER BECAUSE THEY THINK SOMETHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN. AND JUST FOR OUR TIME, AND I APPRECIATE SERVING WITH EVERYBODY ON HERE. IT WAS A GREAT COMMUNICATION THROUGH EVERYBODY. PEOPLE HAD DIFFERENT OPINIONS. NOBODY GOT UPSET ABOUT ANYTHING. IT WAS A VERY GOOD DIALOG. BUT THAT'S MY FEAR MOVING FORWARD IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GUYS DO SOMETHING, HOW DO WE EDUCATE THE PUBLIC? SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND KIND OF A STATEMENT I THINK MAYBE A QUESTION. THANK YOU. AS WELL. MR. LINDER, I THINK THAT DEFINITELY IS A HUGE PIECE OF IT. THE EDUCATION THAT WOULD NEED TO GO TO THE COMMUNITY. SO I APPRECIATE THE RECOGNITION OF THAT. WHEN YOU YOU MENTIONED TERM LIMITS. WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT TERM LIMITS, WAS THERE RESEARCH OR INFORMATION PROVIDED ON OTHER CITIES WITH STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE TERM LIMITS? I WOULD SAY WE DIDN'T GO VERY DEEP INTO THE DISCUSSION OF TERM LIMITS. IT DIDN'T SEEM PARTICULARLY GERMANE TO WHAT WE WERE CHARGED WITH, WHICH WAS A CHANGE IN THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT. IT DID COME UP AS AN IMPORTANT ITEM, BUT IT WASN'T HUGELY IMPACTFUL. I THINK IT'S ON THE SPREADSHEET. THAT THAT WENT AROUND THAT SAYS WHAT THE TERM LIMITS ARE. DON'T HOLD ME TO THAT THOUGH. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THEN JUST ON TOP OF THAT AS WELL, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES, AND I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THERE WAS CONVERSATION OR IF THERE IS EVEN A TEXT BOOK ANSWER. AND I THINK WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE POWER OF VETO. AND I THINK IT'S HUGELY RELEVANT THAT YOU BRING UP THAT DURING THE COURSE OF THE CONVERSATION, VETO HAD NOT REALLY BEEN EXERCISED A LOT. UP UNTIL MORE RECENTLY, AND I THINK THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE I'VE BEEN A PART OF AS A NEWER COUNCIL MEMBER FROM THE PAST YEAR, WE ALL VOTED ON LEGISLATION AND MAJORITY APPROVED IT AND IT WAS VETOED. AND THAT HAPPENED, I THINK, WITH JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS. AND SO I'M TRYING TO, I THINK, GRAPPLE WITH AND UNDERSTAND MYSELF HOW THERE IS A CURRENT CHECKS AND BALANCES WITH THE STRONG MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT, KNOWING THAT LEGISLATION CAN BE APPROVED BY A MAJORITY BODY AND IT STILL IS VETOED, VERSUS IF THERE IS A CITY MANAGER AND COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT, AND HOW THE CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE DIFFERENT. SO WELL, I WOULD SAY FIRST OFF, THERE IS ONLY THAT ONE VETO ISSUE, AND THAT IS WHERE THE MAYOR WOULD VETO LEGISLATION PASSED BY COUNCIL. AND THEN COUNCIL COULD OVERRIDE THAT VETO. AND I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY VETO CHECK AND BALANCE THAT EXISTS IN THE CHARTER. THERE IS NO RECOURSE FOR CHARTER FOR THE COUNCIL IF APPOINTEES TO VARIOUS APPOINTEE OF THE CITY MANAGER OR APPOINTEES TO VARIOUS BOARDS ARE NOT IN THE COUNCIL'S LIKING OR NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE COUNCIL'S IMAGE. THERE'S NO VETO OF THE MAYOR'S APPOINTMENT. HE, THE MAYOR, APPOINTS. AND IN THE CURRENT FORM, THAT'S THE WORD THAT LIVES. SO IN AT LEAST THE HYBRID FORM, COUNCIL WOULD BE ASKED TO APPROVE. MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE CITY, THE HIRE OF THE CITY MANAGER. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH, I THINK THE CHECKS AND BALANCES PIECE IS JUST A HUGE PIECE TO HAVE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND AND THINK ABOUT AND ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT MODELS. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. IF I COULD MISS ANDERSON. THE VETO IS ONE PART OF THE CHECKS AND BALANCES. AND I THINK IN MY TIME HERE, THAT'S PROBABLY THE THREE TIMES THAT I'VE USED IT. BUT AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE FIRST VETO WAS PASSED BY COUNCIL FIVE ZERO. AND AFTER WE WENT THROUGH THE REAL NUTS OF THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, THE VOTE TO OVERRIDE THE VETO WAS ZERO FIVE. SO ALL FIVE COUNCIL MEMBERS CHANGED THEIR MIND AFTER THEY GOT MORE INFORMATION. SO THAT'S THE CHECK AND THE BALANCE. THE OTHER CHECK AND BALANCE, WHICH MR. FREY DID NOT MENTION IS THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE. THERE WAS A YEAR WHEN[00:45:04]
COUNCIL TOOK OUT THE DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. OKAY. SO YOU TAKE YOU YOU SLICE THE BUDGET BECAUSE YOU HAD THE FINAL CUT AT IT. AND THAT PARTICULAR DOCUMENT, THAT PARTICULAR ACT OF, OF COUNCIL IS NOT ONE THAT THE AMERICAN VETO AND IN FACT, THE MAYOR CAN'T EVEN MAKE ANY AMENDMENTS TO IT AFTER IT'S PRESENTED. SO THAT'S A PIECE THAT FROM THE CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT IS NOT THERE, BECAUSE IT IS THE CITY MANAGER WHO PRESENTS THE BUDGET WITH IN COLLABORATION WITH THE COUNCIL. ONCE IT'S VOTED ON, IT'S DONE. THERE IS NO OTHER BITE AT THE APPLE. OURS IS DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S THE BIG PIECE OF CHECKS AND BALANCES. BESIDES, VETO IS THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? COUNCIL. YOU GOOD? GOOD. THIS WAS SUGGESTED TO ME AND I'M GOING TO PUT HER ON THE SPOT. JUDY ZEMAMRA, IF I CAN HAVE YOU COME FORWARD AND THIS IS REALLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF MR. WILSON, WHO ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES AND PROBABLY IS NOT AWARE THAT JUDY, WHO SERVED ON THIS COMMITTEE, IS WORKING IN EDUCATION AND HAD ALSO COME TO COUNCIL AND BEEN A PRESENTER ABOUT THE VARIOUS FORMS OF MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT. SO MAY I JUST ASK YOU TO TELL A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF, JUDY, JUST FOR MR. WILSON'S BENEFIT. THAT'S RATHER EMBARRASSING, BUT I PUT YOU RIGHT ON THE SPOT. SO LET ME. SO, JUDY ZEMAMRA, 4718 SAINT ANDREWS DRIVE, A RELATIVELY NEW RESIDENT, THREE AND A HALF YEARS LIVING IN THIS COMMUNITY, A COMMUNITY I CHOSE. WHEN I RETIRED IS THE PLACE I WANTED TO LIVE AND HOPEFULLY LIVE OUT THE REST OF MY LIFE AS I'M NOW TEACHING AT OHIO STATE. A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE, THAT OUR CHAIR MENTIONED, I WANT TO REITERATE AT EVERY MEETING, THERE WAS DEFINITELY A RECOGNITION THAT GROVE CITY WOULD NOT HAVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE WE HAVE TODAY, IF NOT FOR THE CURRENT MAYOR AND CITY ADMINISTRATOR. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYONE NOT SPEAK TO THAT WITH THE THOUGHT OF THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ON THE QUALITY OF THESE TWO EXCELLENT PUBLIC ADMINISTRATORS AND AN EXCELLENT MAYOR. THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF WHAT DIRECTION DO WE GO FORWARD.NOW, CERTAINLY A RECOGNITION ALSO OF THEIR INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE, WHICH YOU'D BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND ANYBODY THAT WOULD HAVE MORE IN ANY CITY THAN THESE TWO COMBINED. SECOND, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK. OH, WELL. SO MY CAREER HAS BEEN IN BOTH. I'VE BEEN A CHIEF OF STAFF IN A MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT FOR OVER TEN YEARS, AND IT WORKED VERY WELL. AND I'VE BEEN A CITY MANAGER FOR 20 YEARS IN ONE CITY AND WORKED IN CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT, SOME IN OHIO, SOME IN FLORIDA, 42 YEARS. AND NOW I TEACH DOWN AT THE GLEN COLLEGE PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION TEACHING PEOPLE HOW TO WORK AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT. IT'S A HARD JOB TO WORK AS A STAFF PERSON. IT'S A HARD JOB WORKING AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL. I DO WANT TO CLARIFY ONE COMMENT ABOUT, I THINK THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE A FEW MINUTES AGO STATING CITY MANAGER APPOINTMENT. OF ALL THE VERSIONS WE LOOKED AT IN NO VERSION, AND I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY VERSION WHERE ANY CITY MANAGER EVER HAS THE AUTHORITY TO APPOINT. THERE'S THE TRADITIONAL WHERE YOU HAVE A CITY STRONG MAYOR AND THE MAYOR CAN APPOINT AND OR APPOINT BY CONSENSUS WITH THE COUNCIL OR CONFERENCE WITH THE COUNCIL. AND THERE'S DIFFERENT MODELS OF HOW YOU CAN DEVELOP THAT. AND OR IF YOU HAVE A STRONG COUNCIL, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR THEM TO APPOINT SOME OR ALL. NOW YOU MAY DEFER TO SOME OF YOUR CHAIR PEOPLE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE A PARKS COMMITTEE AND YOU SAY LET'S DEFER, YOU KNOW, TO THE PARKS COMMITTEE FOR THOSE APPOINTMENTS, BUT WITH CONSENSUS THAT THE ENTIRE COUNCIL I KNOW OF, NO CITY THAT OPERATES DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT ONE OUT THERE SOMEWHERE. BUT I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY WHERE THE CITY MANAGER MAKES THOSE APPOINTMENTS. THE CITY, THE IN EITHER FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THOSE ELECTED OFFICIAL IS WHERE THAT POWER REMAINS. THE QUESTION IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, THE CHECK AND BALANCE AND HOW YOU DIVIDE THAT. THERE'S DIFFERENT MODELS HERE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY. YOU CAN FIND ALMOST EVERY MODEL IN FRANKLIN COUNTY. YOU CAN FIND ALMOST EVERY MODEL HERE IN OHIO. THERE ARE CITIES LIKE NELSONVILLE, OHIO THAT JUST AT THE MOST RECENT ELECTION IN NOVEMBER, THEY WENT FROM THE CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THEIR CITIZENS VOTED TO GO BACK TO THE STRONG MAYOR FORM. THERE HAVE BEEN CITIES THAT HAVE HAD VOTES AND SAID, WE WANT TO STAY WITH THE MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THERE HAVE BEEN CITIES LIKE SHAKER HEIGHTS THAT HAD VOTES AND SAY, WE WANT TO STAY WITH OUR CITY ADMINISTRATOR FORM. AFTER GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, ALL VERY GOOD REASONS OF WHY THEY THOUGHT THEY SHOULD CONSIDER. BUT COUNCIL DID HAVE ME COME IN JUST ABOUT A YEAR AGO, I THINK, AND DO A SUMMARY OF WHERE WE ARE IN FRANKLIN
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COUNTY AND WHICH CITIES HAVE THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT THAT MAYOR FORM AND WHICH ONES HAVE CITY MANAGER? IF YOU LOOK HISTORICALLY, YOUR LARGE CITIES LIKE YOUR BIG THREE, CINCINNATI IS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT IN OHIO OUT OF THE THREE C'S. BUT TYPICALLY WHERE YOU DO FIND THE CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT TENDS TO BE IN THE SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY IN CENTRAL OHIO. THERE ARE SOME IN NORTHEAST OHIO, NOT AS MANY.THERE ARE SOME IN SOUTHEAST OHIO, NOT VERY MANY AT ALL, AND SOME IN SOUTHWEST OHIO. TOLEDO IS ONE OF THE CITIES THAT HAS PING PONG BACK AND FORTH BOTH WAYS. THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO JUST TO MAKE A POINT ON, I GUESS THIS IS FROM BEING IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD NOW, THE LAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS, WHEN WE USE THE PHRASE THE CEREMONIAL MAYOR AS THOUGH A MAYOR IN THAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THAT PERSON HAS WHATEVER AUTHORITY IS DELEGATED BY THE CHARTER. BUT IF YOU HAVE THE TITLE MAYOR, THERE IS ALWAYS A RECOGNITION BY THE PUBLIC AT LARGE THAT THAT PERSON CARRIES SOME WEIGHT. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S AN ORGANIZATION IN OHIO THAT'S JUST THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE EXISTED FOR YEARS, BUT IT'S GOT MUCH MORE INFLUENTIAL. IT'S THE TOP 40 CITIES IN OHIO AND THEIR MAYORS. THERE'S SOME MAYORS IN THERE WITH THE CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. THERE'S SOME MAYORS IN THERE WITH THE MAYOR FORM OF GOVERNMENT. OUR MAYOR IS VERY ACTIVE IN THE ALLIANCE OF MAYORS, BUT A CITY MANAGER DOESN'T GO AND REPRESENT, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THAT IS AN ORGANIZATION OF WHOEVER IS THE MAYOR. SO THERE ARE GOING TO BE TIMES WHERE A MAYOR WOULD BE CALLED UPON. THERE'S MORE THAN A MAYOR DOES THAN CUT RIBBONS, EVEN IN A STRONG CITY CITY MANAGER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. BUT CITY MANAGERS DON'T APPOINT. BUT IT WOULD BE WHAT YOU PUT TO THE VOTERS AND WHAT THE VOTERS APPROVE. FINAL THING I'LL SAY IS A LOT OF IT'S ABOUT CHEMISTRY AND TRANSPARENCY AND THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE COMMUNITY FOR THE FORMER GOVERNMENT THEY WANT, AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT JOB, OBVIOUSLY. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE ON IT. YOU HAD EXCELLENT PEOPLE, A LOT OF VIEWS, AND I WOULD SAY IN MY FINAL CLOSING OF EVERY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO ATTENDED. ONE THING THAT CAME UP EVERY TIME WITH NO GENERAL CONSENSUS, AND THIS IS WHY I THINK WE GOT THAT MIDDLE CATEGORY. THE BIG DEBATE WAS, IS THERE A BETTER WAY? IN MY PERCEPTION, IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO APPOINT AND GET CONSENSUS AND A ROLE FOR COUNCIL WHEN APPOINTMENTS WERE MADE? BUT WHEN THE DISCUSSION CAME TO THE CONCLUSION, YES, WE DO WANT TO POINT, THEN SOME OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS SAID, DO WE REALLY WANT TO DO ALL THESE APPOINTMENTS? DO WE WANT TO INTERVIEW EVERYBODY FOR EVERY COMMITTEE, OR ARE THERE A SET NUMBER? AND AGAIN, THE MAYOR, I BELIEVE THAT PROCESS IS IN PLACE. THE MAYOR REPORTED BACK THAT HE WAS GOING TO START LISTING THOSE ON THE WEBSITE. NOT SAYING THAT IS DOESN'T NEED DONE, BUT DURING THAT DEBATE, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE COMMITMENTS MADE, WAS TO START LISTING THOSE VACANCIES. SO THAT'S THANK YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD THE BENEFIT OF THACTION. AND I WASN'T GOING TO LET HER SIT IN THE BACK CORNER UNRECOGNIZED. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT SHE WAS SO EMBARRASSED SHE WAS LEFT SPEECHLESS. I APOLOGIZE FOR PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT I, I THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING IN. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL? YEAH, SURE. MY NAME IS JEFF BUSKIRK AND I LIVE AT 4557 CLAYBURN DRIVE, WEST GROVE CITY, AND I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT FOR 33 YEARS. AND WHEN I THINK OF THE CITY OF GROVE CITY, I THINK OF OHIO STATE FOOTBALL BECAUSE YOU'RE BOTH CHAMPIONS. I HAVE HAD MY DIFFERENCES WITH SOME OF YOU HERE, BUT ONE THING I KNOW, YOU'RE ALL GOOD PEOPLE AND I RESPECT EVERY ONE OF YOU. MY QUESTION IS, IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE SOMETHING, YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S BROKE. WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT THAT YOU WANT TO FIX? AND IF YOU VOTE TO CHANGE IT, YOU GOT TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THAT TO THE CITIZENS OF GROVE CITY. THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH. YES, THAT'S THAT'S YOU'VE BROUGHT US BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED THIS LAST YEAR. WE'VE COME FULL CIRCLE. SO WE WERE COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE A LITTLE MINI RETREAT THIS WEEKEND. JUST SO RATHER THAN TALK ABOUT OUR NEXT STEPS BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NEXT STEPS, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE CHARGED YOU WITH THIS EXERCISE AND NOT REALIZE THAT YOU ARE
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TURNING THE BALL BACK OVER TO US, AND IT'S TIME FOR US TO HAVE A STRATEGY FOR HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE IT DOWN THE FIELD. BUT I WILL PUT THAT TO COUNCIL AS YOUR ONE OF YOUR SHORT LIST ITEMS TO PONDER. PART OF THE REASON I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GOT TOGETHER IN THE MONTH OF MARCH IS WE'VE GOT THESE BIG TOPICS ON OUR PRIORITY LIST THAT WE STARTED LAST YEAR WITH, AND, AND WE ARE HERE THIS EVENING TO FULLY DISCUSS THIS. BUT THE NEXT MOST IMPORTANT THING IS NOW WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THIS INFORMATION. SO LET'S EVERYONE GIVE THAT SOME THOUGHT AND WE'LL BE PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THAT AGAIN ON SATURDAY. AND AGAIN, I CANNOT THANK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU ENOUGH. YOUR LEADERSHIP. MR. AND YOUR TEAM THAT PUT TOGETHER THIS WRITTEN DOCUMENT, WHICH IS ALWAYS THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE, HOW TO GET IT INTO REPORT FORMAT. YOU'VE HAD ALL THIS DISCUSSION. NOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO TURN IT INTO A FORMAL REPORT. I APPRECIATE THOSE EFFORTS. I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATION THAT OCCURRED AND THE RESPECTFUL CONVERSATION. MAYOR STAGE AND MR. BOZO ALWAYS BEING THERE FOR THOSE MEETINGS, WHICH I THINK WAS VERY VALUABLE FOR THEM TO HAVE THAT INPUT ALL THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS, APPRECIATE THAT COMMITMENT AS WELL AS FOR MR. SMITH AND MISS KELLY, KEEPING EVERYBODY ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW AS WE AS WE NAVIGATED THIS UNWIELDY DISCUSSION. SO UNLESS THERE ARE ANY OTHER COMMENTS BY ANYONE, WE WILL ADJOURN THIS SPECIAL MEETING WITH THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE. AND AGAIN, I THANK EVERYONE FOR BEING