[00:00:04]
YES WE CAN WE CAN GET STARTED. AND WE HAVE THE POWERPOINT I PUT TOGETHER AND WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT AND TALK ANY QUESTIONS. AND THEN WE HAVE KIM PUT TOGETHER A FEW RULES, AMENDMENTS TO THE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION RULES AND REGS THAT WILL REQUIRE ACTION.
SO THAT WILL BY JULIE SOME TIME TO GET HERE. I THINK SHE HAD SOME CAR TROUBLE. SO WE CAN DIVE RIGHT IN. OH YEAH. I GUESS WE SHOULD CALL. OH YEAH. YEAH WE SHOULD. YEAH WE SHOULD. I
[CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL]
KIND OF FORGOT I NEVER DO THAT. SO IF SOMEBODY COULD CALL IT TO ORDER AND TAKE ROLL, THAT'D BE GREAT. CALL THE ORDER, ROLL CALL. MR. ROACH, MISS WEMLINGER CHAIR OYSTER. MR. FARNSWORTH, MR. TITUS. AWESOME. YOURS DON'T HAVE TO BE UNLESS YOU HAVE. MAYBE IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION.THAT WAY WE DON'T JUST HEAR BREATHING. ALL RIGHT, SO WE HADN'T DONE THIS IN. LOOKED
[A. PLANNING COMMISSION TRAINING]
LIKE AT LEAST FROM OUR RECORDS AND OUR TRAINING 3 OR 4 YEARS. SO IT'S PROBABLY TIME, I DON'T THINK I THINK A LOT OF IT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, BUT IT NEVER HURTS TO JUST GO OVER AGAIN. SO I JUST THOUGHT WE'D KIM ASKED US TO DO IT. I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF BIG, BIG AGENDA ITEMS COMING UP, SO IT SEEMED LIKE AS GOOD A TIME AS ANY TO DO A LITTLE REFRESHER ON ON WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR. SO THESE ARE THE LEGAL TOPICS. THIS IS THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF THE AGENDA, OBVIOUSLY VERY GENERAL, YOU KNOW, 30,000 FOOT CONSIDERATIONS. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS PERHAPS MOST KEY, CERTAINLY FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, IS MAKING A GOOD RECORD. AND WHAT WE NEED TO, TO HAVE ON THE RECORD TO DEFEND OURSELVES IN THE EVENT THAT AN APPLICANT WANTS TO SUE US OR APPEAL IT TO THE COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, REFRESHER ON VOTING AND MOTIONS. I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD HANDLE ON THAT, BUT BUT WE'LL DIVE INTO IT JUST TO TO DO IT. AND THEN A DISCUSSION OF POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND HOW WE HANDLE IT.AND THEN PUBLIC RECORDS AND COMMUNICATIONS. GENERALLY KIND OF FOUR MAIN THINGS. I'M GOING TO START ACTUALLY AT THE BOTTOM, AND THAT'S DUE PROCESS. THANKFULLY FOR MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION AND MYSELF, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MUCH OF A HANDLE IN THAT ON THE FRONT END. SO THAT'S MAKING SURE THAT OUR MEETINGS ARE NOTICED. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE A CHANCE TO SHOW UP AND GIVE DISCUSSION, AND THAT THE APPLICANTS ARE INFORMED BEFOREHAND WITH OUR STAFF REPORTS, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT. THAT'S ALWAYS OUT IN THE PUBLIC WELL BEFORE DUE PROCESS GETS A LITTLE MOVED OVER TO YOUR SHOULDERS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING A GOOD RECORD. AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS, BASICALLY, IS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS A CHANCE TO BE HEARD, ANSWER QUESTIONS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO CONCERNS THAT MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION MAY HAVE ABOUT THE LEGAL CRITERIA THEY HAVE TO MEET TO, TO RECEIVE A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OR A OR AN ABSOLUTE APPROVAL, DEPENDING ON THE TOPIC.
PREPARATION. I, I HAVE NOT NOTICED ANY ISSUES HERE, BUT AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY REAL MASSIVE CONTENTIOUS ONES. SO, YOU KNOW, REVIEW THE CODE PROVISION AT ISSUE. IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE, REVIEW THE PLANS AND THE SITES AND THE STAFF PACKETS, WHICH ARE, I THINK, VERY WELL DONE AND TIED TO THE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA. TYPICALLY I SEE WHEN I REVIEW THEM THE WEEK BEFORE MEETING, YOU KNOW, IF STAFF HAS A PROBLEM WITH ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT ARE SORT OF UP FOR GRABS, THEY NOTE THAT. AND SO THAT GIVES YOU SORT OF A RED FLAG TO SAY, OH, I SHOULD HONE IN ON THIS ISSUE OR THAT ISSUE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, QUESTION THE APPLICANT ON IT AND GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO TO RESPOND. WHETHER OR NOT THEIR RESPONSE IS ADEQUATE IS REALLY UP TO THEM.
THAT'S IN SORT OF THE GRAY AREAS. OF COURSE, THERE'S ALSO BLACK AND WHITE CODE PROVISIONS.
AND IF IT'S IF IT'S BLACK, EVEN IF WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE, THAT'S A, THAT'S A YES. SO DEMEANOR, THERE'S NO REAL ISSUE HERE. EYE CONTACT, ACTIVE LISTENING. MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THE GROVE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION IS IT MEETS DURING THE DAY AS OPPOSED TO THE NIGHT.
AND SO THAT SOMETIMES THAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT KEEP THE CROWD DOWN. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I'M SORRY. ROLE OF OUR CHAIRPERSON. OPEN THE MEETING ON TIME AND CALL IT TO ORDER. WE THEN SORT OF ANNOUNCE THE BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA AND WORK THROUGH THE AGENDA AS IT'S AS IT'S LISTED, UNLESS THERE'S A REASON TO AMEND IT. SOMEBODY CALLED IN AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO THEY'RE GOING TO BE 15 MINUTES LATE. WE CAN ALWAYS AMEND THE AGENDA TO MOVE THINGS AROUND.
NO PROBLEM THERE. WE JUST NEED TO DO IT. IF THAT'S EVER THE CASE. I THINK WE DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB. IT COULD ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANTED TO, WE COULD SORT OF GO DOWN THE LINE LIKE THE CHAIRPERSON COULD SAY. MR. ROACH, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? YOU KNOW, ON AND ON THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER RATHER THAN JUST OPEN IT UP TO GENERAL DISCUSSION. BUT I DON'T THINK IT IT'S NOT DETRIMENTAL TO US. IT MIGHT JUST HELP US ALL KEEP OUR THOUGHTS IN ORDER AS WE MOVE INTO MAYBE SOME MORE
[00:05:04]
CONTENTIOUS HEARINGS. AND THEN THE CHAIRPERSON ALSO MAKES THE ULTIMATE DECISIONS ON QUESTIONS OF ORDER. AND, YOU KNOW, I SIT HERE MOST OF THE TIME LIKE A BUMP ON A LOG. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SORT OF WHERE I SORT OF LEAN INTO THAT. IF ANYBODY HAS A QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY, JUST FEEL FREE TO FLAG IT FOR ME. AND WE CAN WE CAN HASH IT OUT RIGHT THEN. OF COURSE, MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO PREPARE, ATTEND AND BE ON TIME FOR EVERY MEETING. AGAIN, I DON'T THINK WE EVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT. UNDERSTAND OUR GENERAL RULES OF PROCEDURE. THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER ONE WHERE IF YOU IF SOMETHING KIND OF WENT WONKY IN YOUR MIND DURING A MEETING, DON'T HESITATE TO TO REACH OUT TO ME OR KIM OR KYLE AND WE CAN HASH IT OUT, MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T DO SOMETHING WRONG OR FIX IT FOR NEXT TIME TO MAKE IT GO SMOOTHER. AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, JUST BE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND FAMILIAR WITH THE ISSUES SO THAT YOU CAN INTRODUCE THE MOTIONS SECOND TO MOTION AND THEN DISCUSS THE ISSUE ACCORDING TO THE RULES OR ASKING INFORMATION ABOUT THE ISSUES. ALWAYS. WE HAVE PLENTY OF STAFF HERE AT THESE MEETINGS.YOU KNOW, FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF US DIRECTLY. I KNOW YOU DO THAT ALREADY.
GENERALLY, VOTING AND MAKING MOTIONS. MOTIONS ARE VOTED UPON BY A ROLL CALL VOTE, AND ONLY ONE MOTION MAY BE CONSIDERED AT A TIME. SO NOW SOMETIMES WHAT THIS MIGHT MEAN IS SORT OF ASKING. I WOULD I MAY MAKE A MOTION NOW TO ACCEPT IT. DOES ANYBODY ELSE DOES SOMEBODY WANT TO ADD ANOTHER CONDITION? YOU KNOW, THAT TYPE OF THING SO THAT WE CAN HASH OUT BEFORE I KNOW THAT HAPPENED MAYBE TWO MONTHS AGO, WE HAD A MOTION TO APPROVE AND SOMEBODY SAID, WAIT, THAT THAT MOTION HADN'T HIT OR WE THERE WAS A STIPULATION THAT HADN'T BEEN INCLUDED. AND WE SORT OF HAD A MESS OF TRYING TO SORT WHAT NEEDED TO BE VOTED ON FIRST. SO THERE'S NO ISSUE, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, LEGALLY FROM US SORT OF TALKING ABOUT A MOTION BEFORE WE MAKE THE MOTION. SO DON'T DON'T HESITATE TO DO THAT IF YOU IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION IN YOUR MIND ABOUT IT, THE PERMIT, THE PERMITTED MOTIONS ARE A MOTION TO APPROVE, TO APPROVE WITH STIPULATIONS WHETHER THOSE BE STIPULATIONS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF OR ONES THAT YOU HAVE DISCUSSED ON THE FLOOR AND WANT TO BRING TO A VOTE. MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL, RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH STIPULATIONS, AND THEN A MOTION TO POSTPONE OR A MOTION TO AMEND. SO WE'VE GOTTEN BETTER AT THIS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. WE USED TO CALL IT LIKE A MOTION TO TABLE, AND WE REALIZED THAT'S SORT OF A VERY PARTICULAR PROVISION OF ROBERT'S RULES. THAT ISN'T REALLY WHAT A MOTION TO POSTPONE IS. SO WE ALWAYS USE TABLE AS A PLACEMENT FOR POSTPONEMENT, BUT BASICALLY MEANS WE'RE GOING TO SET IT ON THE TABLE AND THEN BRING IT OFF WHEN WHEN IT NEXT NEEDS TO BE HEARD. WHAT WE WOULD PREFER NOW IS TO POSTPONE IT TO A TO A DATE CERTAIN. NOW MAYBE WE DO IT TO THE NEXT MONTH, BUT AND SAY THEY'RE NOT READY A MONTH LATER. THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH ONCE AGAIN POSTPONING IT FOR MOVING TO POSTPONE ANOTHER MONTH. WE JUST WANT TO HAVE A DATE IN THAT RATHER THAN JUST AN OPEN ENDED. WE'LL HEAR YOU WHEN YOU'RE READY. PUT A DATE ON IT. AND IF WE NEED ANOTHER MONTH, WE CAN ALWAYS ADD ANOTHER MONTH. CONFLICTS OF ISSUES OR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND ETHICS ISSUES. THIS REALLY LEADS REALLY HONES DOWN ON ABSTENTIONS. YOU'RE ALL ACTIVE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, SO IT'S VERY LIKELY AT SOME POINT, SOMETHING THAT COMES UP HERE BEFORE THE BOARD WILL MIGHT HAVE AN IMPACT ON YOU IN SOME WAY. THIS IS ALWAYS EASIER FOR ME IF I KNOW IT BEFOREHAND. SO IF YOU HAPPEN TO GET THE PACKET AND SEE SOMETHING THAT EVEN RAISES A QUESTION, JUST LET ME KNOW BECAUSE I'LL BE VERY CANDID. IF I'M ASKED UP HERE, I'M PROBABLY GOING TO SAY YOU SHOULD ABSTAIN JUST OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, BUT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE TO IF I HAVE TIME TO LOOK AT IT AND SEE THE NUANCE OF IT AND KIND OF POKE A LITTLE MORE AT WHAT YOU THINK YOUR CONFLICT IS. SO IF YOU CAN BEFOREHAND, LET ME KNOW. IF NOT, JUST KNOW NOW, I'LL PROBABLY SAY YOU SHOULD PROBABLY ABSTAIN. IF YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOU SHOULD RECUSE YOURSELF. AND THEN WHAT WE ALWAYS SAY IS JUST WALK OUT OF THE ROOM. SO EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT SOMEBODY'S GOING TO SAY. AN EYE ROLL OR A NOD. WAS THAT TYPE OF THING NOT I WOULDN'T ANTICIPATE ANY OF YOU DOING THAT, BUT IT'S JUST BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY AND KIND OF REMOVE THAT POTENTIAL CRITICISM FROM AN APPLICANT WHO'S NOT HAPPY. YOU CAN I SAY HERE GENERALLY STATE THE REASON FOR YOUR CONFLICT AND THEN LEAVE THE ROOM. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE ON THE FACT THAT I HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN THIS MATTER, YOU KNOW, VERY HIGH LEVEL. YOU DON'T NEED TO GET INTO THE DETAILS ON THAT.
THAT'S NOT REALLY IMPORTANT AS LONG AS YOU'RE OKAY. GO AHEAD. QUESTION ON THAT ONE. SO I'LL KIND OF QUESTION THAT ON A COUPLE OF THEM WILL COME UP JUST BECAUSE AN INDIVIDUAL PRESENTING WITH SOMEONE I GREW UP WITH, I'VE KNOWN THEM SINCE THEY WERE PROBABLY FIVE YEARS OLD. YEP. SO I DIDN'T HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST WITH IT. BUT HOW WOULD THE PUBLIC VIEW
[00:10:01]
THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE A LEGAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST? SO I THAT ABSTAINING IS ALWAYS UP TO THE BOARD MEMBER. SO IF YOU THINK IT'S REALLY A REAL POTENTIAL, FEEL FREE TO ABSTAIN. BUT I WOULD SAY BEYOND YOU TAKING SOME CRITICISM PERSONALLY, IT'S NOT EXPOSING THE CITY TO ANY ISSUE. OKAY. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST OR A, YOU KNOW, A VESTED INTEREST IN THE LAND OR THAT TYPE OF THING. YEP. ANOTHER ONE I HAVE WAS ONE WAS ONE OF MY CLIENTS. I HAVE MY OWN TAX PRACTICE. SURE. AND IT WAS A CLIENT OF MINE THAT THEIR PROPERTY WAS BEING CONSUMED WITH A NEW BUILDING. AGAIN, I HAVE NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, WITH THAT. YEP, YEP. NOW, DOES ANYBODY KNOW THAT THAT'S ONE OF MY CLIENTS. NO, NO. YEP. I WOULD LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU. GOOD. HERE'S THE TIE IN. IT'S BASICALLY A DIRECT FINANCIAL BENEFIT TO YOU, WHICH IS NONE. THERE'S NONE. EXACTLY. AND IN THAT CASE, YOU KNOW, IF TRYING TO PLAY THAT THROUGH TO WHERE THERE WOULD BE FOR YOU. I CAN'T SEE IT. SO I'D SAY THAT.YEAH, MINE WAS ONLY FROM PERCEPTION. SURE. YEP, YEP. AND THAT I BELIEVE ENTIRELY UP TO YOU IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IT, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SHAME IN ABSTAINING. I JUST DON'T THINK YOU'RE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO DO THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEP. THE OHIO ETHICS COMMISSION ENFORCES THE OHIO ETHICS LAWS. THEY DO THOSE THROUGH INVESTIGATIONS USUALLY INITIATED BY CITIZEN COMPLAINTS. SO THAT'S IN THAT. LET'S TAKE YOUR CASE FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THAT'S THAT WOULD BE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE IS LIKE, OH, THAT'S A CLIENT SO-AND-SO CALLS THE ETHICS COMMISSION. THEY'LL PROBABLY CALL YOU, THEY'LL CALL THE APPLICANT, THEY'LL GET OUR RECORDS. AND IN THAT CASE, THEY WOULD FIND THAT THERE'S NOT AN ETHICS CONFLICT, BUT THAT WOULD BE MAYBE A HEADACHE THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH.
UNDERSTANDABLY PROHIBITED ACTS RECEIVING ANY BENEFIT FROM A CONTRACT ENTERED INTO BY THE PUBLIC ENTITY. SO THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, GROVE CITY WAS DOING IT HIRE OR SECURE ANY CONTRACT BENEFITS FOR A SPOUSE, PARENT, GRANDPARENT, CHILD, OR ANY LIVING RELATIVE. AND THEN THE ITALICIZED ONE IS PROBABLY THE ONE THAT'S MORE RELEVANT. PARTICIPATE IN MATTERS WHERE SOMETHING OF VALUE WILL RESULT FOR THE PUBLIC OFFICIAL OR YOUR ASSOCIATES. THAT COULD IMPAIR YOUR OBJECTIVITY. SO THAT'S SORT OF THE STANDARD THAT THE OHIO ETHICS COMMISSION WILL LOOK AT. IF SOMEONE WERE TO MAKE A COMPLAINT. ONE TIME. THE GROVES. 655 THERE'S LIKE 200 UNITS THAT WE PUT THOSE 200 SYSTEMS IN, AND THE OWNER OF THE GROVES WAS GOING TO DO THE MALL WAY THAT NOW WE'RE. WITH THE MALL WAY TO THE LEFT THERE. AND I ABSTAIN FROM THAT. BUT I MEAN, IT WASN'T LIKE WE'RE UNDER CONTRACT. IS THIS WE HAD, YOU KNOW, DID THE GROVES FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE THAT STOP THERE? YEP. SO I ABSTAIN FROM THAT ONE. BUT I DIDN'T I WASN'T ENTERING AND I DIDN'T END UP DOING THE HVAC ON THE, ON THAT MALL WAY ANYWAY. YEP, YEP. YEAH.
AND THAT I WOULD, I'D HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU ABSTAINING IN THAT CASE. YEP. ABSOLUTELY.
PUBLIC RECORDS AND COMMUNICATIONS RECORD IT. IT MEANS EVERYTHING. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THAT DEFINITION, IT'S DOCUMENT DEVICE OR ITEM REGARDLESS OF ANY PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS. SO IT'S A PAPER WRITTEN MESSAGE, A FAX CREATED OR RECEIVED BY OR COMING UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF ANY PUBLIC OFFICE WHICH DOCUMENTS THE ORGANIZATION, FUNCTIONS, POLICIES, DECISIONS, PROCEDURES, OPERATIONS, OR OTHER ACTIVITIES OF THE OFFICE.
SO ANYTHING YOU EMAIL TO ANYBODY HERE AT THE CITY OR, OR ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF THE CITY, WHETHER OR NOT FROM A AN OFFICIAL, I'M NOT EVEN SURE. DO YOU GUYS HAVE EMAIL ADDRESSES? OKAY. YEAH. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING THROUGH A PERSONAL EMAIL OR ON A PERSONAL CELL PHONE, IF IT'S ABOUT THE PUBLIC BUSINESS, THEN IT'S STILL A PUBLIC RECORD. SO JUST, JUST REMEMBER THAT. I'M SURE YOU ALL KNOW THAT, BUT WE GET A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT, WELL, THAT WAS ON MY PERSONAL CELL PHONE. DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S WOULD IT BE SO? WOULDN'T IT BE SO EASY? WE JUST DO THAT. BUT NO, IT'S A RECORD KEPT BY ANY PUBLIC OFFICE. AND WHAT KEPT BY MEANS IS IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IN THE BACK HERE HAS THE RECORDS. IT'S YOU'RE A MEMBER OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND YOU HAVE RECORDS ABOUT THE PUBLIC BUSINESS, THEN THAT'S A PUBLIC RECORD NOT KEPT BY A PUBLIC OFFICE. EXAMPLES. THAT WOULD BE A RECORD THAT HASN'T THAT ISN'T YET IN EXISTENCE OR ONE THAT'S BEEN DISPOSED OF LAWFULLY. SO I DIDN'T TOUCH ON IT HERE, BUT WE COULD DO MAYBE A UPDATE EMAIL ON WHAT OUR RETENTION SCHEDULE IS. AND SO THAT'S WHAT ALLOWS US TO DELETE PUBLIC RECORDS LAWFULLY AFTER X PERIOD OF TIME,
[00:15:05]
DEPENDING ON THE CONTENT OF THE RECORD. AND I THINK THE CITY HAS WE, I KNOW WE HAVE A RETENTION SCHEDULE WITH PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF CATEGORIES AND TIMELINES THAT WE CAN KEEP AND WHEN TO DISPOSE OF THINGS. THE REAL KEY WITH FOLLOWING THAT SCHEDULE IS THAT IF YOU'VE DELETED IT ACCORDING TO THE SCHEDULE, YOU'RE ALL GOOD. BUT IF YOU HAVEN'T AND IT'S IT'S STILL IN EXISTENCE, THEN IT HAS TO BE PRODUCED. SO IF YOU HAVE MESSAGES DATING BACK X NUMBER OF YEARS AND THAT IS PAST THE, THE RECORD'S RETENTION PERIOD FOR THAT TYPE OF RECORD THAT NEEDS TO BE PRODUCED IN RESPONSE TO A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, IF YOU HAVEN'T DELETED IT ACCORDINGLY. WHICH IS INTERESTING WITH TODAY WITH CLOUD STORAGE. YES, THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. AND SO YEAH, IF YOU NEED HELP WITH THAT, OUR IT FOLKS WILL HELP, YOU KNOW, SORT OF ACTUALLY GET TO THE, TO THE, LIKE THE THIRD DELETE BUTTON THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT GO AWAY. SO JUST SWIPING IT OFF OF YOUR PHONE AND IT'S GONE FOREVER. I THINK I ALREADY HIT THIS. YEAH. ELECTRONIC RECORDS ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER TANGIBLE RECORD. PRIVATE EMAILS CAN BE SUBJECT TO A PUBLIC RECORDS ACT CLAIM. IF IT IF THOSE EMAILS DOCUMENT THE ORGANIZATION. PERSONAL NOTES. SO THIS IS A LITTLE MORE OF A TRICKY TOPIC. THEY CAN BE RECORDS, BUT THEY'RE OFTEN CONSIDERED TRANSITORY. AND WE HAVE A RETENTION SCHEDULE FOR TRANSITORY RECORDS. IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, DELETE IMMEDIATELY UPON, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT HAS NO LONGER AN ADMINISTRATIVE VALUE. SO CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, EMAILS ABOUT WHEN WE WERE SCHEDULING THIS TRAINING ONCE IT GOT ON THE BOOKS, FEEL FREE TO DELETE IT. NO LONGER SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO HOLD ON TO NOTES THEMSELVES. SO IF YOU'RE TAKING NOTES UP HERE AS, AS AN APPLICANT IS GIVING A PRESENTATION, THOSE ARE NOT CONSIDERED RECORDS. IF THEY'RE KEPT AS YOUR PERSONAL PAPERS, IF THEY'RE KEPT FOR YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE AND IF THEY'RE NOT ACCESSIBLE TO OTHER MEMBERS. SO IF WE'RE WRITING NOTES AND SHOWING IT TO THE PERSON NEXT TO US, WE'RE GETTING INTO AN AREA THERE WHERE IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY A PUBLIC RECORD. WE SHOULD MAINTAIN IT. BUT IF YOU'RE JUST KIND OF KEEPING NOTES FOR YOURSELF, TO KEEP YOURSELF STRAIGHT OR TO ASK FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS. YOU CAN DELETE, YOU CAN, YOU CAN HOLD ON TO THEM AND THEY WOULDN'T BE A PUBLIC RECORD, OR YOU CAN SHRED IT WHEN YOU'RE DONE, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. SO HERE ARE SOME TIPS OF WHAT TO AVOID. EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS WITH OUTSIDE PARTIES. SO THIS WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING TALKING WITH AN APPLICANT ABOUT AN UPCOMING PROJECT, TALKING WITH OTHER COMMISSION MEMBERS ABOUT IT OR EVEN OTHER CITY RESIDENTS. AND I'M SYMPATHETIC TO YOU AND YOUR ROLE HERE BECAUSE ALMOST UNAVOIDABLY, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CORNER YOU AND ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT SOMETHING. AND THE BEST BET IS TO, YOU KNOW, JUST BLAME THE LAWYER. YEAH. SORRY, I REALLY CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT. YOU YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO WALK AWAY FROM YOU, BUT I, I REALLY CAN'T GET INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE A MEETING NEXT MONTH. FEEL FREE TO COME AND TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS THEN. AND THEN WE WANT TO AVOID MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE APPLICATION ON INFORMATION OUTSIDE OF THE RECORD. I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU NOT TO DO OUTSIDE RESEARCH. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'D PROBABLY BE THE SAFEST BET IS JUST KEEP IT CONFINED TO HERE. BUT IF YOU DO DO OUTSIDE RESEARCH, THAT CAN'T BE PART OF WHAT YOUR DECISION HERE IS BASED ON. IT'S BASED ON STAFF REPORT, SUBMISSIONS FROM THE APPLICANT AND THE DISCUSSION THAT HAPPENS ONCE THE MEETING IS CALLED TO ORDER, THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE THE FOCUS OF ANY DECISION. QUESTION ON THAT. SURE. I KNOW A LOT OF US, AT TIMES WHEN WE SEE SOMETHING COME UP, WE'LL DRIVE TO THE LOCATION JUST TO SEE, I THINK TO GET A GENERAL IDEA OF WHAT DOES THIS ENTAIL? WHAT'S IT LOOK LIKE? OH YEAH. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ADDING DIFFERENT THINGS TO IT. YEAH, JUST FOR ME, JUST TO KIND OF SO I UNDERSTAND FROM THE STAFF REPORT CAN BE PUT TOGETHER. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.I THINK THAT FALLS INTO SORT OF BEING WELL PREPARED FOR THE MEETING. BUT IF WHILE YOU'RE THERE, YOU COME UP WITH QUESTIONS, BRING THEM HERE, RAISE THEM TO THE APPLICANT, GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO ADDRESS THEM. AND THAT WAY WE CAN SAY THAT'S HOW THIS IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE RECORD. YEP YEP YEP. ABSOLUTELY. I FEEL LIKE I DELETED OR MISSED THE MOST IMPORTANT SLIDE. SO HOLD PLEASE. I SKIPPED PAST IT. OH, THERE WE GO. I DID SKIP PAST IT. SORRY ABOUT THAT. THERE WE GO. SO YEAH, THIS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT ITEM MAINLY FOR FOR A FEW REASONS. ANYTHING YOU DO IS EITHER GOING TO GO UP TO COUNCIL AND YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES THEY MAY OR MAY NOT LISTEN TO YOU, BUT A RECORD OF YOUR DISCUSSION, THE MINUTES, YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS IS GOING UP TO COUNCIL AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ON IT WITH
[00:20:05]
THEIR OWN RECORD AND QUESTIONS PROCEEDINGS. ON RARE OCCASIONS, YOU DO HAVE A FINAL SAY. AND IN EITHER WAY, EITHER WAY, WHETHER IT ENDS HERE OR IT ENDS AT CITY COUNCIL, THEY HAVE AN APPEAL RIGHT UNDER THE OHIO REVISED CODE, CHAPTER 2506 THAT ALLOWS THEM TO TO APPEAL IT TO THE COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS. AND THAT'S WE CALL THAT AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPEAL. THERE'S VERY FEW. THE GOVERNMENT GETS A LOT OF LEEWAY IN THOSE APPEALS, BUT THE KEY TO IT IS HAVING A GOOD RECORD AND BASING YOUR RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OR NOT APPROVAL, OR YOUR FINAL SAY ON IT, ON THOSE CRITERIA TIED IN THE RECORD. BECAUSE IF IF WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD RECORD OR IF IT'S ABUNDANTLY CLEAR ON THE RECORD THAT SOMEBODY ON THE COMMISSION MADE A VOTE THAT WAS OPPOSITE OF THE CRITERIA, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD MET IT OBJECTIVELY, THEY CAN REOPEN IT AND THEY'LL HAVE A WHOLE NOTHER HEARING DOWN IN COMMON PLEAS. AND LET'S BE CANDID, WE DON'T YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTS OF GROVE CITY DON'T WANT A COURT OF COMMON PLEAS JUDGE MAKING A DECISION FOR THEM BASED ON A WHOLE NEW HEARING. THEY WANT YOU ALL AS MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. SO GETS EXPENSIVE FOR THE CITY. AND IT ENDS UP, YOU KNOW, WITH THAT SORT OF AN OUTSIDE PARTY MAKING THOSE DECISIONS. AND THAT'S NEVER A GOOD THING. SO AGAIN, OF COURSE, THE ENTIRE COMMISSION MEETING IS RECORDED. SO, YOU KNOW, KEEP ALL COMMENTS RELEVANT TO THE APPLICATION, MAINTAIN THE DEGREE OF FORMALITY WITH ALL THE APPLICANTS IN THE WITNESSES. KEEP IT POLITE. I KNOW SOME OF THESE CAN CAN BECOME PRETTY CONTENTIOUS. LET LET THE CONTENTION COME FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. THEY'RE PERMITTED TO DO THAT. THEY CAN GET IT ON. WHAT THEY SAY AT THE LECTERN IS JUST ON THE RECORD AS YOU. NOW, GRANTED, IT'S NOT A BASIS FOR A DECISION, BUT IT CAN INFORM YOUR QUESTIONS AND GIVE YOU A SENSE IN SOME OF THOSE MAYBE CRITERIA, CASES THAT ARE 5050 SHOTS, THE KEY IS TYING YOUR. I MEAN, LET'S BE CLEAR, IF YOU APPROVE SOMETHING THAT IS RARELY APPEALED OUTSIDE OF.CERTAINLY PEOPLE FROM THE PUBLIC CAN APPEAL IT. THAT JUST RARELY HAPPENS. IT'S TYPICALLY IF YOU DENY A DEVELOPER SOMETHING AND THEY. THEY SPOTTED SOME IN THE ARMOR OF OUR RECORD, THEY'RE GOING TO APPEAL IT. AND SO WE WANT TO HAVE ALL OF OUR COMMENTS GROUNDED IN FACTS AND NOT OPINIONS. AND THEN THIS IS IT'S, THIS IS REALLY THE KEY PART.
AND I AGREED BEFOREHAND, BUT KIM SAID, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAMMER THIS. AND SHE'S RIGHT.
IT'S THEY HAVE TO BE TIED TO THE REVIEW CRITERIA. NOW, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT FROM TIME TO TIME WE HAVE YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU HAVE ALL SAID AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER, I KNOW THIS ISN'T WHAT'S BEFORE US, BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THIS NEXT STEP IN THE PLAN OR WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE THERE. THERE'S NO ISSUE WITH DOING THAT WITHIN REASON. AS LONG AS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, DON'T LEAN ON THOSE THINGS THAT AREN'T GERMANE TO THE TOPIC DIRECTLY BEFORE YOU TO DENY SOMEBODY OR APPROVE SOMEBODY OF SOMETHING. AND THIS WE COULD DO BETTER. THIS FRANKLY, EVERY PLANNING COMMISSION I, I SIT ON COULD DO BETTER AT THIS. AND THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE VOTING NO, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SAY WHY. HERE IS THE CRITERIA I DON'T THINK IS MET. AND HERE IS WHY. I MEAN, THAT IS ABOUT AS ROCK SOLID OF A RECORD AS YOU COULD PRODUCE FOR A COURT TO REVIEW ON AN APPEAL. AND THEN, OF COURSE, DON'T DEMAND CONCESSIONS OR ITEMS THAT AREN'T JUSTIFIED OR IN THE CODE. EVERY PLANNING COMMISSION IN THE COUNTRY HAS, YOU KNOW, THEY PUSH A LITTLE BIT AND OFTENTIMES THEY'LL GIVE IT AWAY UP THE LETTER. SURE, WE CAN DO THAT. AND THAT'S OKAY. BUT IF THEY SAY THEY CAN'T DO IT, FEEL FREE TO LOOK OVER HERE AND WE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE OF OUR PURVIEW. IT'S NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY. AND I WOULD NOT CONSIDER THAT IN YOUR DECISION. I CAN JUST SAY THAT. AND THEN WE'RE WE'RE CLEARED UP FROM THAT QUESTION, SORT OF A HOUSEKEEPING FOR, FOR ME TO SAY THAT ON THE RECORD SO THAT A COURT, WHEN THEY'RE REVIEWING IT, WILL KNOW THAT YOU DIDN'T CONSIDER THAT, OR AT LEAST IN THEORY, YOU WERE TOLD NOT TO CONSIDER IT. AND YOU CAME UP WITH A WITH AN OBJECTIVE REASON TO DENY THEM. KIM, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THAT ONE? OKAY, COOL. THAT WAS ALL I HAD. ANY QUESTIONS? IT CAN BE A SORT OF A OPEN DISCUSSION. I'M HAPPY TO. I'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS AS WE GO THROUGH THIS. SURE. YEAH. THANK YOU. LET ME DO THAT. YEAH, SURE. NOW I'LL RUN THROUGH THIS.
[B. BYLAWS DISCUSSION]
KIM. PREPARE THIS. I TOOK A LOOK AT IT. THEY ALL LOOKED AND MADE SENSE TO ME. BUT YEAH, HOP IN AS YOU GO. AND I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE CAN COME TO A CONSENSUS ON THESE. WE'LL JUST[00:25:01]
DO IT LIKE A ALL AT ONE TIME VOTE TO AMEND THE RULES. AS NOTED IN THIS IN THIS DOCUMENT.RIGHT. WELL, I GUESS SO. YOU KNOW, AT THE ON THE COVER PAGE, IT LISTS WHEN THESE BYLAWS HAVE BEEN AMENDED. AND YOU CAN SEE WE DON'T DO IT FREQUENTLY. IT'S REALLY ONLY WHEN THERE'S A PROCEDURAL QUESTION THAT COMES UP FREQUENTLY OR JUST SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL LIKE NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED. SO THE MAIN REASON THAT WE WANTED TO TOUCH ON THIS THIS TIME WAS TO CLARIFY WHAT TAKES HOW MANY MEMBERS IT TAKES FROM PLANNING COMMISSION TO GET A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE ON. WHEN MOVING ON TO CITY COUNCIL, THERE WAS QUESTION OF. IF THERE WERE ONLY THREE, DOES IT TAKE ALL THREE OR IS IT THE MAJORITY OF MEMBERS PRESENT AT THE MEETING? SO THAT WAS UPDATED HERE TO CLARIFY THAT. AND THAT APPROVAL FROM THE MAJORITY OF PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS. PARENTHESES THREE MEMBERS IS REQUIRED FOR A MOTION TO BE APPROVED. SO THAT WAS THE MAJOR CHANGE THAT WE WANTED TO HAVE CLARIFIED IN THE BYLAWS TODAY. THE OTHER TWO CHANGES ARE REALLY JUST CLARIFICATIONS. IF ANYTHING, ONE OF THEM UNDER SECTION SIX OF STAFF REPORT. PREVIOUSLY, IT LISTED SPECIFIC POSITIONS WITHIN THE CITY THAT WOULD ARE PART OF OUR REVIEW TEAM THAT WE SEND OUT THE APPLICATIONS TO, WHERE IF WE HAVE COMMENTS THAT ARE OUTSTANDING, WE WILL NOTE THAT IN OUR STAFF REPORT, JUST SO EVERYONE IS AWARE OF WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENTS CONCERNS WERE, IT WAS JUST CLARIFIED TO BE MORE DIRECTED TO THE DEPARTMENTS AND NOT NECESSARILY TO A SPECIFIC POSITION WITHIN THE DEPARTMENTS. SO THEY'RE STILL THERE? YES, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. PERFECT QUESTION I HAD ON THAT WAS IT SAYS THE CITY, THE CITY IS CONSULTING ENGINEER. SO WHO'S THAT RIGHT? EMAIL IS TYPICALLY IS OUR CITY ENGINEER.
CAN WE DO NOT HAVE IN-HOUSE ENGINEERS. WE USE THEM AS OUR M, H AND T. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO IN THE CASE THAT M T IS DOING THE PRIVATE THE ACTUAL DESIGN OF THE PLANS, WE DO HAVE SOME BACKUP ENGINEERING FIRMS. SO IT'S NOT ALWAYS NECESSARILY M T THAT YOU WILL BE HEARING FROM IN TERMS OF THE REVIEW, BUT THEY ARE IN TERMS OF BEING THE CITY'S CONSULTING ENGINEER. IT IS M H T. THANK YOU. THE ONLY OTHER PROPOSED CHANGES TO UNDER MEETING PROCEDURE, WHICH IS SECTION EIGHT. IT'S SUB LETTER H. AND THAT'S JUST TO BE CONSISTENT WHERE WE ADDED UNLESS OTHERWISE MODIFIED BY THE CHAIR. AND THAT'S. SO THE TIME LIMIT THAT APPLICANTS HAVE SIMILAR LANGUAGE IS UNDER THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION. SO WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE BEING CONSISTENT. DO WE NEED TO SAY CO-CHAIR AS WELL OR NOT, OR JUST LEAVE IT AS CHAIR? THAT IS A GOOD POINT. I'M TYPICALLY IN LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW, OTHER SECTIONS THAT WHEN IT'S SAYING A DECISION IS UP TO, SAY, A DEPARTMENT HEAD, THERE WOULD BE A DEFINITION SAYING LIKE OR THEIR DESIGNEE. SO WE COULD EITHER ADD THAT IN HERE. WE COULD USE PROBABLY MEANS THE SAME, RIGHT? IT DOES. YEAH. YEAH. I'D LEAVE IT ALONE. THEN I'D LEAVE IT ALONE.
AND THAT'S ON THAT MIGHT BE WORTH A LITTLE FURTHER DISCUSSION. A SUBSECTION N. SO THE CHAIR ANNOUNCES THE RESULT OF THE VOTE AND DIRECTS THE OFFICIAL RECORDING OF THE DECISION, TOGETHER WITH THE REASONS FOR THE DECISION, IF NOT INCLUDED WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S MOTION. NOW, IT ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE COMMISSION'S MOTION, BECAUSE WE MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STIPULATIONS OR NOT. AND CHEMICAL JUMP IN ON ME. BUT I THINK WHAT WE'D WANT HERE IS IN A PERFECT WORLD, IT WOULD WE WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY. THANK YOU, APPLICANT. HERE ARE THE CRITERIA THIS COMMISSION DOESN'T THINK YOU HAVE MET. AND THAT'S WHY YOUR RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL IS NOT GOING FORWARD WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE YOU'RE 95FT FROM THE LINE AND THE CRITERIA IS 100. JUST GIVING THEM THAT. SO YOU DIDN'T HIT IT. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. I THINK THAT WOULD BE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. THAT'S THE CLEANEST, TIGHTEST WAY FOR A RECORD. SO THEY SO WE HAVE SOMETHING TO POINT TO ON APPEAL THAT SAYS THEY SAID RIGHT THERE. THIS IS WHY THIS WAS DENIED. WE HAD A WE HAD ONE IN DUBLIN, MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, A YEAR AGO NOW. THEY DENIED IT WAS EXTREMELY CONTENTIOUS ONE. AND, YOU KNOW, OUR CHAIR SORT OF SAT THERE FOR. SHE SAT THERE FOR TEN MINUTES, SORT OF NOTING WHAT THE COMMISSION MEMBERS HAD SAID. THIS IS WHY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHY I DON'T THINK THIS IS MET. AND COUNSEL FOR THE APPLICANT WAS NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT SORT OF PAUSE IN THE ACTION. BUT WHO WAS SITTING THERE IN THE LAW DIRECTOR SHARE THAT TIME WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW,
[00:30:04]
THE CHAIRS, YOU KNOW, PERMITTED TO TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS SHE NEEDS TO GATHER THE THOUGHTS ON, ON WHY THEY APPEALED IT. AND THERE WAS NO PROBLEM WITH GIVING SOME TIME TO PUT THOUGHTS TOGETHER IN A CONTENTIOUS DENIAL. IT'S JUST SORT OF A BASIS FOR MAKING A CLEAN RECORD. THEY OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AN APPLICANT'S COUNSEL THAT'S BEING DENIED WANTS US TO DENY IT WITHOUT ANY STATEMENT, SO THEY CAN SAY THEY BASE IT ON A BUNCH OF SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. SO, YOU KNOW, TAKE ALL THE TIME YOU NEED. IT'S NOT UP TO THEM, IT'S UP TO YOU. SO THAT WOULD BE MY ADVICE ON THAT. SURE. SO COMES UP AND MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA IN THE CODE FOR THEIR USE. WE DON'T VOTE IT UP. MARIJUANA DISPENSARY TO BE SPECIFIC. CAN WE LEGALLY DO THAT? NO. IF THEY MEET IT, THEY GET IT. AND THAT'S BASED ON, YOU KNOW, THEY WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION AS A CITY TO HAVE CRITERIA THAT CAN BE MET. AND IF THEY MEET IT AND WE VOTE NO, THEY'RE GOING TO WIN. YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN IS IT'LL GET APPEALED. THEY'LL REMAND IT BACK TO YOU AND BASICALLY SAY, APPROVE THIS.YEAH. I WOULD SAY JUST TO ADD ON TO THAT, SOME OF THE CRITERIA CAN GET A BIT MORE QUESTIONABLE OR SUBJECTIVE, I WOULD SAY. AND THAT'S WHERE QUESTIONABLE IS NOT THE CORRECT TERM IN TERMS OF APPROPRIATENESS OR, YOU KNOW, IMPACTS TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES, RIGHT? SO STAFF WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO ENSURE THAT THE APPLICANT HAS ADEQUATELY, IN OUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, PROVIDED ADEQUATE INFORMATION WHERE WE CAN SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, IF WE BELIEVE THAT AN ADJACENT PROPERTY IS NEGATIVELY IMPACTED OR WHATEVER THOSE CRITERIA ARE, ZONINGS AND SPECIAL USE PERMITS ARE PROBABLY HAVE THE MOST.
THEY ARE CORRECT. YES. MORE THAN 500FT AWAY FROM THIS, OR YOU HAVE C2 ZONING FOR THIS AND THAT. IT'S GOOD TO USE. YES. CORRECT. NEXT DOOR. RIGHT, RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. AND YOU'RE I MEAN, YOU'RE RIGHT. I SORT OF OVERSIMPLIFIED THAT. SURE. THERE MIGHT BE A LIST OF TEN ITEMS AND EIGHT OF THEM ARE VERY BLACK AND WHITE. ABSOLUTELY. DON'T BASE A DENIAL ON ONE OF THE BLACK AND WHITE ONES THAT IS MET. BUT IF YOU HAVE SOME SOME SUBJECTIVITY, AS LONG AS YOU CAN ARTICULATE WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE WITH IT AND WHY, EITHER THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION DOESN'T SEEM TO MATCH UP WITH WHAT YOU THINK, OR THE APPLICANT COULDN'T ADEQUATELY ADDRESS IT. THAT WOULD THAT IS PERMITTED, AND CITIES DO GET LEEWAY ON THAT, BUT YOU REALLY GET NAILED ON THE BLACK AND WHITE ONES WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SAYS, WHY, I DON'T LIKE IT. NO, THAT HASN'T BEEN A PROBLEM. BUT YEAH, THE ONE THAT CAME UP TO ME, CHRIS, ON THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC, AND THE GUY SAID HE SAT IN THE PARKING LOT AT ONE OF THE OTHER DISPENSARIES AND COUNTED CARS INSTEAD OF HAVING A THIRD PARTY BRING US A TRAFFIC STUDY CONCERN. THAT WAS THE ONE THAT THAT THAT'S WHEN IT THREW IT OUT FOR ME OF, OF THAT MORE THAN ANYTHING OF THEY WERE CONCERNED OF THE TRAFFIC AND BEING A DANGEROUS INTERSECTION. AND THE GUY'S LIKE, YEAH, WELL, I SAID OUR OTHER DISPENSARY AND COUNTED CARS ARE TWO HOURS AND THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I'M LIKE, YEAH, I FELT LIKE YOU REALLY HUNG HIMSELF OUT TO DRY ON THAT. INSTEAD OF SPENDING THE MONEY AND HAVING PROFESSIONAL SURVEY DONE. AND THEN WE COULD SEE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. NOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, WELL, AND THEY STARTED OFF WITH THE VERY HIGH END OF ESTIMATES, WHICH REALLY SHOT THEM IN THE FOOT, YOU KNOW, ON THAT ONE. BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHY WE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE VOTED IT DOWN WAS JUST ON THAT. YEP, YEP. SO I THINK THE THE MORAL OF THAT STORY IS WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FOR APPLICATIONS LIKE THAT, THAT IT IS CLEARLY STATED THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR EACH NO VOTE OF RECOMMENDATION THAT THAT IT'S TIED TO AN ISSUE LIKE THAT. AND FROM OUR PART, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE VERY CLEAR IN OUR RECORD, WHICH IS ENDS UP GOING IN THE MINUTES, RIGHT, THAT THAT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL. SO THEY KNOW FOR SURE. BUT ALSO, JUST TO BE CLEAR AND FAIR TO THE APPLICANT AS WELL.
SINCE YOU JUST WENT THROUGH N I HAD A QUESTION ON OH, RIGHT BELOW THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S EVER HAPPENED. I HAD THAT FLAGGED IN MY NOTES ALSO. YEAH, WE DO NOT ENCOURAGE THIS NECESSARILY BECAUSE WE DO TRY TO ENSURE CITY COUNCIL GETS THE THE MATERIAL, THE SAME MATERIALS THAT YOU GET THE SAME DAY OF THE FRIDAY BEFORE WHEN WE ISSUE THE PACKETS. SO WE HAVE FOUND IT TO BE MUCH CLEANER IF CHANGES ARE NOT DONE IN BETWEEN PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL, WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY, ACCORDING TO THE BYLAWS, TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY.
[00:35:01]
IT. IT'S GONE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AS TO WHAT THE CLEANEST WAY IS. WE'VE HAD APPLICANTS DO THAT IN BETWEEN. I THINK BEULAH PARK DID IT. HARRIS FARMS, I THINK DID IT. SOMETIMES IT WORKS, SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T. WHERE SOMETIMES THE APPLICANT GETS TO CITY COUNCIL WITH CHANGES MADE IN BETWEEN AND THEN IT ENDS UP GETTING POSTPONED, OR THEY JUST FORGET THAT APPLICATION AND COME IN WITH A CLEAN ONE AND WE START OVER. SO WE TYPICALLY OUR PREFERENCE IS TO NOT DO THIS WAY, BUT SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I DON'T THINK IT'S EVER HAPPENED. I WOULD SAY. DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF ONE THAT DID? LIKE I SAID, I'M MORE IN THE PAST NORMALLY HAPPENS IS IF APPLICANT MAKES MODIFICATIONS, THEN I COUNCIL WERE REALLY DOING THE SAME THING WE DO HERE IS DEBATING DESIGN AND TRAFFIC FLOW. AND RIGHT OVER THE PAST 2 OR 3 YEARS OR MAYBE LONGER THAN THAT, WE'VE REALLY STOPPED ENCOURAGING APPLICANT TO TAKE THAT STEP, JUST TAKE THE PLANS AS PLANNING COMMISSION HAD RECOMMENDED OR NOT RECOMMENDED FOR PUT IN FRONT OF COUNCIL AS IS. SO WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PLAN COMMISSION AT CITY COUNCIL. YEP.WELL, LIKE WHEN WE'VE HAD LIKE THREE, WE'LL SAY THERE'S TWO STIPULATIONS AND SAY WE ADDED A THIRD AND ONE WAS WHERE WE WANT MORE TREES OR WHATEVER. SO I MEAN, WHAT I'M READING IN HERE IS THAT BETWEEN THAT TIME AND GOING COUNCIL, THAT MAY BE ADDED STIPULATION. YOU COULD REMOVE IT BEFORE IT GOES TO COUNCIL. YES. AND I MEAN, COUNCIL CERTAINLY HAS KIND OF TAKEN SOME STIPULATIONS, BUT NOT OTHERS THAT COME AS A RECOMMENDATION FROM PLANNING COMMISSION. THEY CERTAINLY HAVE THAT ABILITY TO DO SO. I THINK WE JUST DON'T NECESSARILY DO IT AS A PROCESS OR THE APPLICATIONS ARE EXAMPLES THAT I NOTED. IT WASN'T NECESSARILY TIED TO A SPECIFIC STIPULATION SET. IT WAS MORE IF IT WAS A NO COMING OUT OF PLANNING COMMISSION THAN AN APPLICANT MAY WANT TO TRY AND CHANGE IT BEFORE IT GETS TO CITY COUNCIL, BUT THAT CAN OBVIOUSLY LEAD TO MUCH BIGGER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. YEAH, THAT WAS MY QUESTION ON THAT. SO GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. IT'S JUST ABOUT THE MEETING SECTION. WE DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT RECORDINGS. I KNOW THEY'RE RECORDED. DO WE NEED TO SAY ANYTHING IN THERE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I MEAN I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T HURT I MEAN YOU COULD PUT IT LITERALLY ANYWHERE ON. ALL MEETINGS. SO YOU COULD ADD A COMMA TO THE END OF A AND JUST SAY AND AND WILL BE RECORDED. IF YOU WANT. I MEAN, I KNOW WE DO IT. I JUST YEAH, IT'S NOT IN HERE. YEAH. DO IF THAT IS A RECOMMENDED AMENDMENT, DO WE NEED TO SPECIFY THE KIND OF RECORDING IN TERMS OF. I MEAN, I KNOW BACK IN THE DAY WE USED TO HAVE JUST AN AUDIO RECORDER THAT WOULD HELP US WITH THE MINUTES. AND THEN YOU COULD GET INTO SPEECH TO TEXT, RIGHT? YEAH. I THINK MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO JUST NOT, WHICH IS A QUESTION.
QUESTION. YEP. AND THEN MY NEXT QUESTION WAS ON AGENDA. I DON'T KNOW WHY. IF YOU LOOK AT B IT SAYS NO AGENDA ITEM SHALL BE TAKEN UP AFTER 4:30 P.M. AFTER 4:30 P.M. WHEN AT THE MEETING.
SO IF WE HAVE STRETCHED OUT PAST THREE HOURS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO START A NEW OF THE MEETING. THAT THE MEETING DATE? YEP. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT MEANT WHEN THEY'RE SUBMITTING IT. NOPE, NOPE. YEP. OKAY. FOR 2002 WITH THE MEETING. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S HAPPENED ONCE. I THINK IT WAS ONE OF MY FIRST MEETINGS. WE HAD, WHAT, 11 ITEMS OR 12 ITEMS WOULD DO IT.
AND JUST IN MY LAST THING, IT'S JUST ON SECTION 11, THE X PARTY CONTACT. YES. AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE INDIVIDUAL I'M PROBABLY GOING TO REFER TO SENT ME EMAILS ASKING IF I NEEDED MORE INFORMATION AND SO FORTH. I THINK I CONTACTED DAVID FOR TERRY. YOU KNOW, THAT'S LIKE, WHAT DO I DO? THIS GUY'S CONTACTING ME. YEAH, I MEAN, I WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD DO THAT AND COPY ME AND I CAN PREDICT. YEAH. AND WE CAN SHUT THAT DOWN REAL QUICK. YEAH, YEAH. BECAUSE
[00:40:01]
THEY SHOULD NOT BE DOING THAT. WELL, WE, WE HAD A MEETING AND WE MET WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL TOO, IF THAT HELPS YOU. BUT IT WAS AFTER THAT THAT THEY EVEN CONTACTED, YOU KNOW, DID SOME SUBSEQUENT CONTACTS. I'D SAY WE'RE TOTALLY FINE AS LONG AS YOU DON'T ENGAGE IN IT SUBSTANTIVELY. JUST LET US KNOW SO WE CAN. I DON'T THINK I ENGAGE AT ALL WITH IT OTHER THAN I THINK I SEND SOMETHING TO YOU GUYS THAT, HEY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CONTACTING ME. YEAH, YEAH, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO RESPOND. AND IF YOU DO, I WOULD JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, THANKS FOR REACHING OUT. WE'LL WE'LL BE IN TOUCH THROUGH CITY STAFF IF IF WE HAVE ANY NECESSARY FOLLOW UP. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK MY ANSWER TO TO THAT PERSON WAS I JUST REITERATED WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, IN THE CHANGES, WHICH THEY DIDN'T DO. RIGHT, RIGHT. ANYWAY, THAT WAS MY ONLY EXAMPLE OF THAT. AND THAT'S, THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE. COOL. OH YEAH. WE DO. YEAH, YEAH. WE'LL NEED A MOTION TO AMEND THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AS PRESENTED. SO MOVED. SECOND, MISS WENDLINGER. YES. MR. FARNSWORTH YES. MR. TITUS. MR. ROACH. YES. COOL. MEETING